C&R Yugo SKS 59/66 - self import, what to do - to make legal?

[mcubed4130]

C&R Yugo SKS 59/66 - self import, what to do - to make CA legal?

Ok guys, I'm potentially being drafted to take the wifey to visit relatives in Ohio... woo hoo! (cough)... but since I noted that AIM is in Ohio. I started thinking...

If I swing over to AIM, and buy a C&R Yugo SKS 59/66 - http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/S...x39_Rifle.html - as has been noted previously the grenade launcher (GL) is a problem - considered by California to be a destructive device ( like golf ball launchers )

I noted this URL posted previously -shows how to remove the GL, http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...move/index.asp

So in theory, I buy it - in Ohio with my C&R FFL, and remove the GL, right? Well... maybe...

Something called Federal something 922r? Now comes into play, because I modified my C&R Yugo SKS by removing the GL to make it CA compliant - and now it's no longer a C&R? So now I have to remove the bayonet? And something about 10 parts are the max to have made out of the country? Seems like whole new levels of insanity...

Is perhaps some or all of this avoided by buying the metal sleeve and bringing a portable welding torch with me, and installing a sleeve over the GL - instead of removing the GL? or is that also a "modification" that voids my C&R status?

And of course this insanity, now makes me wonder - when I drive back across the state line into CA... am I importing a C&R longarm? Or am I importing a Rifle?

Also some # of folks have been saying, SKS's require a non-detachable mag? (fixed) - I'm confused, I see no Evil Features on this gun, why do I need to make the mag, non-detachable?

As a side note, what 4 digit IQ# - does it require to buy a gun in this state anyway?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide on this one. As I'm rather confused.

-M3

[hoffmang]

I'll skip the 922r issue and leave that for someone else.

As long as you legally acquire a C&R firearm with your C&R license out of state, you have not broken a law. There is no California law that says you can not modify an otherwise legally acquired C&R firearm out of state and there is no CA law banning your import of that now modified C&R firearm as long as it is not a Destructive Device (the grenade launcher issue as you already know) or an Assault Weapon. As long as you've rendered the GL inop or removed it, you're clean and fine per CA.

One note on Fed, other than 922r and either way - enter it into your bound book.

-Gene

[easy]

Fed law does not like threaded barrels on long guns. (I don't know why.)

When I bought my Yugo's from Ohio, I had a guy install muzzle brakes on them. I chose brakes from Richard Miller. Search.

[duenor]

Fed law does not like threaded barrels on long guns. (I don't know why.)

um... since when?

if that were true, Fed law would be having an apopleptic fit. here are a few guns currently sold with threaded barrels:

• ar-15 clones
• su-16 ca, c, and d
• g-22
• fal

now if you are in california and you have a HANDGUN with a threaded barrel, you're in trouble.

the problem with 59/66 sks rifles and CA is the damn grenade launcher. hack that thing off (or unscrew it off) and you are just fine.

[duenor]

as for the 922R - AFAIK (and I know very little) having something missing doesnt make it lose its 922R status. if that were true, would that egyptian hakim with a missing top handguard be not c&r? how about that 1903 a3 that someone chopped the stock off of to make into a pistol grip? i think not.

the exception is with barrel receiver only guns. those are not c&r.

[River Jack]

My interpretation of the CA threaded barrel issue on the M59/66 is that the state wants to make sure that after the GL has been removed, it can't simply/quickly be reattached anytime in the future. I think that is why the weld is required on the muzzle break. Welding the sleave over the GL essentially does the same as it would theoretically cover up the pin making removal/replacement difficult.

[JawBone]

Lest someone forget to touch on the detachable mag issue:

IIRC an SKS with detachable mags are on the List Ban. So, you don't even get to play the features analysis.

Leave the fixed mag as is, detachable mag makes it an AW.

[mcubed4130]

Lest someone forget to touch on the detachable mag issue:

IIRC an SKS with detachable mags are on the List Ban. So, you don't even get to play the features analysis.

Leave the fixed mag as is, detachable mag makes it an AW.

Grumble, I searched for Yugo, instead of SKS... should have known... sheesh... no features but still banned... ANNOYING... wonder how much it would cost, to get my entire extended family and all my friends and all their friends to move out of PRK.

...
The term assault weapon means the following designated semiautomatic firearms as
defined by Penal Code section 12276:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
(2) UZI and Galil.
...
(10) The following MAC types:
(A) RPB Industries Inc, sM10 and sM11.
(B) SWD Incorporated M11.
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
...

-M3

[JawBone]

lol. seriously, as I read that, an SKS is the only long gun that is specifically banned with a detachable magazine. So much for consistency/reason in the laws...

[mcubed4130]

Hmm... actually... I think perhaps I'm confusing myself with other confusing info.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/cu...0505update.htm

Yugoslavian manufactured rifles M59 and M59/66, 7.62 x 39mm caliber, all semiautomatic variations and having a fixed magazine, manufactured from 1947 to 1992.

This Yugo M59/66 - is not a named SKS, as far as I can see... as other items on this ATF page, are listed as SKS's. So I am going to assume this is just a longarm made in Yugoslavia.

I think perhaps AIM - is just using the name SKS for descriptive purposes.

There is also this in the Rifileman's forum that I found on the subject as well.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=59419

So I'm still puzzled by my original question of - if I REMOVE - the GL does Federal 922R now take effect? vs. if I COVER UP the GL then it does not?

-M3

[hoffmang]

1. A Yugo/Zastava is not an SKS unless the letters SKS appear on the side (and I seriously doubt that they do) and as such it can have a detachable magazine. Don't illegally and accidentally import high-capacity magazines.

2. Threaded barrels mean nothing on long guns in CA. All you need to do is make sure you don't own an operational Grenade Launcher - and frankly for safety's sake, I'd remove the GL and leave it out of state.

3. I'm highly suspicious that you have a 922(r) issue. The spirit of 922 is that you can't modify a firearm in a way that would make it otherwise non importable without it having enough US parts. The Zastava 59 is the non GL version of the exact same rifle and its importable. Remove the GL and don't sweat 922(r). Also, I am unaware of any end firearm owner ever being charged with, much less convicted of a 922(r) violation. That statement is not as definitive as everything else however.

-Gene

[mcubed4130]

Thanks again Gene!

1. A Yugo/Zastava is not an SKS unless the letters SKS appear on the side (and I seriously doubt that they do) and as such it can have a detachable magazine. Don't illegally and accidentally import high-capacity magazines.

Doing a bit more searching, I see that I am 9 months late on this baby...

AB2728: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=39164

And what a fun result we ended up with.

Happy 2007! http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=45331

2. Threaded barrels mean nothing on long guns in CA. All you need to do is make sure you don't own an operational Grenade Launcher - and frankly for safety's sake, I'd remove the GL and leave it out of state.

Interesting, I was kinda thinking the GL would be trashed in the removal process, but reading http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...move/index.asp again... yeah, perhaps I'll sell it as a spare part or something... or buy a time capsule and put it in there for years from now, when we are all free again. I assume by your warning, there are constructive possession issues on destructive devices... I better throw my golf balls away. I may some day own a golf ball launcher.

3. I'm highly suspicious that you have a 922(r) issue. The spirit of 922 is that you can't modify a firearm in a way that would make it otherwise non importable without it having enough US parts. The Zastava 59 is the non GL version of the exact same rifle and its importable. Remove the GL and don't sweat 922(r). Also, I am unaware of any end firearm owner ever being charged with, much less convicted of a 922(r) violation. That statement is not as definitive as everything else however.

-Gene

Thats kinda what I was thinking. So if I keep the firearm - as was intended but remove the GL - for CA compliance, I think I'd be fine, and could argue the point if I really had to in a court.

On the other hand, if I change to removable mags, I would expect to have to play the Federal 922R game.

-M3

[hoffmang]

On the other hand, if I change to removable mags, I would expect to have to play the Federal 922R game.

Yes. If I removed the bayonet from my Russian SKS, I think BATF would be hard pressed to claim I was in violation of 922(r)

-Gene

[thedrickel]

My take on the Yugo's not being "SKS"'s is that it would be hard for me to use that defense in court when the Century invoice that came with the rifle says "Yugo M59 SKS"

It might fly in the long run, but I don't feel like sending some lawyer's kids thru college when I can build an NDS-3 with no evil features for 300 bucks.

[hoffmang]

And it says Stag AR-15 on invoices too. If the letters SKS are not on the receiver, Harrot's rules are quite clear.

-Gene