No Import Marks

[usctrojan]

I see lots of guns draw more money because they lack import marks. I get that this would be rare... but what is the big deal with it? How much value does it add? Can somebody explain this?

[Fate]

Gun is in more original condition. Hasn't been defaced with an import mark. Makes a differentiation in value.

Can also potentially indicate firearm is a bringback. No papers, it's just a story, but still, it's the stuff collectors like. Import marks started getting added after 1968.

[zinfull]

It is a big deal in WWII pistols. An import mark will put a nice matching Luger in the shooter category for around $750. With out an import mark it would be doubled or more. There are some guns so rare that they over come the drastic price difference but they never will be worth as much as non-imported guns.

jerry

[Flyin Brian]

I don't mind some of the older import stamps, at least they were in an inconspicuous spot and you had to really look to find them. The ones I see now are absolutely horrid.

I definitely would rather not have import marks , but in some cases it's actually been somewhat of a benefit to have them. For example Century Arms moved from St Albans Vermont to Georgia Vt, so if you find a Finn mosin with a Century Arms import stamp, you can tell roughly when it was imported by which city is shown. Also, there have been a lot of C&R rifles mis-marked with the wrong info, and people have listed these rifles on auction sites based on the info on the import marks. Some people have gotten some smokin' deals buying a rifle listed as something different. I know someone who snagged an M-24 Finn for half price because it was marked as a M-91

[Howie44]

Attatchment is a PL marked Sako M39 with no import marks, original wartime stock, and i am guessing the original sling. Got it from a lady that said it wasn't really worth anything, and her dead husband had it forever. I paid MUCH LESS than it is worth!!

[rojocorsa]

I have to say, the Aztec Import mark on my 91/30 is very discreet. Not like the bigass dot matrices you see on CAI Mosins.

I've seen rifles with these marks on the barrel, but then something in the rules changed it so they had to be on the receiver--or so I'm told.

[SVT-40]

The laws regarding Import marks have been around for many decades. Prior to 1968 many many hundreds of thousands if not millions of firearms were imported into the US without any additional markings other than what they were originally manufactured with.


In the 1950's US firearms manufacturers lobbied congress and won a import ban on importation of of firearms which had previously been shipped overseas as military aid. The reason for this law was US manufacturers could not compete with the prices of surplus firearms coming in from overseas.


In 1968 requirements were added to require the country of origin to be added to firearms coming from overseas. That's why on many German guns you see "Germany" stamped into the receiver. If you find a firearm bearing the singular stamp for it's country of manufacture it's a dead giveaway that it was imported after 1968 and before 1986.

In 1986 the federal ban related to importation of firearms previously given as military aid was lifted. There was however a requirement that the arms be marked with the caliber, country of origin, manufacturer and the importers name city and state.

Since many if not most firearms already bore the manufacturers name and country of manufacture the new importers marks were usually the caliber and the importers information.

At that time the law did not specify the location of the markings, and most importers placed them in a inconspicuous location on the barrel. Sometimes even under the wood line so they were not readily seen without disassembly.

In 2002 the import marking law changed once again mandating that the markings be on the firearms frame or receiver. There was also a requirement for the firearms serial number to be on the firearms frame or receiver and that is why we have the current "billboard" markings we see today.

In addition there was a new requirement as to the depth of the markings to be at least .003" in depth.

More to come...

[rojocorsa]

In the 1950's US firearms manufacturers lobbied congress and won a import ban on importation of of firearms which had previously been shipped overseas as military aid. The reason for this law was US manufacturers could not compete with the prices of surplus firearms coming in from overseas.

I knew something's been up with this stuff...

</conspircacy theory>

[NaughtyMonkey]

I don't mind some of the older import stamps, at least they were in an inconspicuous spot and you had to really look to find them. The ones I see now are absolutely horrid.

I definitely would rather not have import marks , but in some cases it's actually been somewhat of a benefit to have them. For example Century Arms moved from St Albans Vermont to Georgia Vt, so if you find a Finn mosin with a Century Arms import stamp, you can tell roughly when it was imported by which city is shown. Also, there have been a lot of C&R rifles mis-marked with the wrong info, and people have listed these rifles on auction sites based on the info on the import marks. Some people have gotten some smokin' deals buying a rifle listed as something different. I know someone who snagged an M-24 Finn for half price because it was marked as a M-91

I have a Turkish Mauser 8MM and the import mark says "German Mauser 8MM" along with the importers name.

[cruddymutt]

My Turk Mauser I recently sold also said germany 8mm on the barrel.

[Noonanda]

Century arms F'ed up alot of the barrel importer markings, I have seen Finn Mosins with "8mm mauser " markings, turks. but atleast those marking were discreet vice the billboard used now.

[rojocorsa]

Are they actually called "billboard?" Or do you guys call them that because they stand out so much?

[Interloper]

There are a few other things we can learn from an import stamp or the absence of one. An M91/30 without import markings most likely came from Finland. That means it was captured in war. Kinda cool. If the same rifle is dated pre-1938 then maybe it came from Spain and was used in the SCW? Also cool. These Spanish rifles may also have an import stamp...even though they came to the US before the 1968 GCA was passed. Most commonly they are stamped "MADE IN USSR" or "... URRS".
So with weapons unlikely to have been brought home by a vet, the import mark or lack thereof can tell us definitively the provenance of a weapon.

Then there is the fact that the markings have gotten bigger and uglier over the years. This is due to ATF regulations and poor taste on the part of the importer.
I have a Turk Forestry Berthier with a very discreet CAI stamp under the handguard. Then I have an M44 with a very small stamp under the barrel. Contrast that to the hideous dot matrix pattern on recent CAI imports. They're awful.

[SVT-40]

In all probability any pre 1968 firearms will not have any "import" markings. Simply because there was no law requiring it. Post 1968 firearms will have at least either "made in" or just the country of origin.

The lack of any import stamping is actually not "definitive" proof of when a firearm was imported. There are quite a few recent imports which simply missed being marked. I have a number of firearms in my collection which should have import markings, however non are present.


In addition many of the post 1986 rifles which were marked on the barrels have had there barrels changed, thus removing the markings. Additionally some of the markings were struck so lightly that they can be easily removed and the area cleverly reblued to cover the removal.

Some of the more clever importers also placed the markings beneath the stock or hand guard. I have two M-1 carbines which I purchased from Sherwoods in L.A. back in the 80's. Both of there rifles have their import stamps on the barrels under the hand guards. Bo buyer beware.

Related to import marks or no import marks.... Obviously a firearm without any additional markings will be more valuable than a firearm in exactly the same condition with import markings.

The rub is many types of recently imported firearms were so rare before 1986. When the recent imports hit the market values of similar firearms fell drastically.

Prior to 1986 a excellent matching Mosin Nagant type 44 ran around $300. After the flood of imports the values dropped dramatically.

Same with SKS carbines. Prior 1986 any SKS was big bucks. Then came the flood of rifles from various countries all over the world. Prices plummeted.

So for me, import marks do play a part in my decision on a whether to buy or not. But more important is condition. Condition is everything.

So if I were to place a value difference? Maybe 10% depending on the scarcity of a particular firearm.

As for the Turkish rifles bearing the "Germany" stamp. In all likelihood the true origin of the receiver was Germany, as the Turks were masters at reworking various Mauser rifles into their own types. Probably GWE98's

[SVT-40]

Are they actually called "billboard?" Or do you guys call them that because they stand out so much?

Because they are big and ugly.