Selling C&R Question

[Bulleh]

Hello Good Folks,

I tried doing a search but really couldn't find the answer I'm looking for. I'm sure this topic has been covered numerous times already. If you could just one more time I'd greatly appreciate it.

I have mosin nagant 91/30, I bought it about a year ago but have never shot it after cleaning it. I want to sell it since it's not really my taste in firearms. I do not have an FFL 03. Can I still sell it as cash and carry? If so, what do I need to do and need to fill out?

Thanks,
Chris

[Mssr. Eleganté]

If you are a California resident then you can sell the Mosin-Nagant to another 18+ year old California resident without any paperwork or FFL involvement. You should check their ID to see that they are at least 18 years of age and a California resident.

You can do this because Penal Code Section 12078(t)(2) exempts 50+ year old C&R long guns from having to go through a dealer/DROS transfer within California if neither party is a California licensed dealer.

[Quinc]

Next question; what if you have a c&r, 10 Mosins and want to sell them to 10 different people at no profit. Is that legal?

[Divernhunter]

The C&R is a COLLECTORS LIC. IF you buy 10 of anything and then sell them in short order you will be looked upon as a dealer and that is a no-no. You can sell to enhance your collection (improve the quality of firearms) or if you change direction og collecting.

Bottom line : so if you are thinking of buying to sell(or give) to your buddies or sell to others then NO you can get in trouble.

Does that help?

[Bulleh]

Hmm, but when I bought the rifle, it was from Big 5. I had to go through DROS and they took down the serial number. Should I be worried that if I sell the rifle, and God forbid, a crime was committed with it. Wouldn't it come back to me?

-Chris

[littlejake]

[Quinc]

The C&R is a COLLECTORS LIC. IF you buy 10 of anything and then sell them in short order you will be looked upon as a dealer and that is a no-no. You can sell to enhance your collection (improve the quality of firearms) or if you change direction og collecting.

Bottom line : so if you are thinking of buying to sell(or give) to your buddies or sell to others then NO you can get in trouble.

Does that help?

What do you mean by short order; all in the same day, week, month, year, 20years? Any chance the ATF has this written anywhere?

[BayAreaShooter]

Hmm, but when I bought the rifle, it was from Big 5. I had to go through DROS and they took down the serial number. Should I be worried that if I sell the rifle, and God forbid, a crime was committed with it. Wouldn't it come back to me?

-Chris

When people sell a C&R most will have the buyer sign a document saying they are not prohibited from buying or possessing a firearm or ammunition and getting a copy of there license. By the way do you have a buyer in mind because I am looking for a Mosin nagant 91/30.

[stitchnicklas]

you can print a atf over the counter sales form of the internet,

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf

have them fill it out,copy their license and keep the form to cover you a**..


and if you do sell some mosin's pm me i might like a 3rd one..

[hypnoman]

cya

Hello Good Folks,

I tried doing a search but really couldn't find the answer I'm looking for. I'm sure this topic has been covered numerous times already. If you could just one more time I'd greatly appreciate it.

I have mosin nagant 91/30, I bought it about a year ago but have never shot it after cleaning it. I want to sell it since it's not really my taste in firearms. I do not have an FFL 03. Can I still sell it as cash and carry? If so, what do I need to do and need to fill out?

Thanks,
Chris

You should (not required) do a short bill of sale with the other person's contact info in case you're ever questioned. A legit buyer will have no objections.

and yeah, if you don't have a buyer . . . pm me with your price and description . . .

[hypnoman]

give them a call?

What do you mean by short order; all in the same day, week, month, year, 20years? Any chance the ATF has this written anywhere?

My view on this is it has to do with their perception of your intentions. Since you are a collector. Your goal, though you will come across many, many guns, maybe you only intend to collect a "certain quality" and at times you may want to sort through a few . . . just to arrive at the one or two you decide to keep. Then you must thin the herd. Or maybe you there are way more guns than funds and you decide to thin out a few so you can get others . . .

If you don't find (and I doubt there will be written limitations of how many in how much time) information you need . . . how about give the ATF a call and when you get the answer that supports what you want to do, I suggest you get that ATF agent to send you and email to print and to have for your collection!

I found them most courteous and quick to clear things up . . .

[paul0660]

Sec. 921(a)(21)(C) says, in part, "a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby..." is a "dealer".

Buy ten Mosins.......don't like them? Sell them. Don't do it regularly and you are not abusing the 03 license, even if you make money on them.

[hypnoman]

like this point . . .

Buy ten Mosins.......don't like them? Sell them. Don't do it regularly and you are not abusing the 03 license, even if you make money on them.

If you buy 10 Mosins and sell 8 all at once . . . seems just like you found 2 "keepers" for your collection! That's what all collectors do, right?

And . . . I doubt very much anyone would say you made enough profit to call it livelihood . . .

Enjoy collecting!! You're licensed to do so!! And do give us first dibs on your discards . . .

[hk91666]

I think the main issue is avoiding the perception by the BATFE you ARE in Business.

[Quinc]

Sec. 921(a)(21)(C) says, in part, "a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby..." is a "dealer".

Buy ten Mosins.......don't like them? Sell them. Don't do it regularly and you are not abusing the 03 license, even if you make money on them.

Thank you for the reply!
Just wish they would be more clear and not use words like "occasional".