How much stuff can be missing for it still to be a C&R?

[pingpong]

This is probably a gray area, but I just wanted to see what the general consensus is.

So I know the following:

How exact is the "original military configuration" requirement? How does this affect parts that are either missing or broken? For instance, if a Mosin is missing a handguard or the buttstock plate (pretty trivial), is it no longer C&R?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

There is no way to answer your question with any degree of certainty. BATFE is deliberately vague on this issue. You would need to write to the Technical Branch with each new firearm you had a question about and they still might only give you a vague answer.

[pingpong]

There is no way to answer your question with any degree of certainty. BATFE is deliberately vague on this issue. You would need to write to the Technical Branch with each new firearm you had a question about and they still might only give you a vague answer.

That's what I was afraid of.

Oh well...

[tpuig]

Interesting question. So if you wanted to someday build a custom bolt action based on an early Mauser or 1903, could you just buy the action as a C&R? That part is original.

Later you would have it changed to a different caliber and add other parts, making it non C&R at that point?

[Robidouxs]

Interesting question. So if you wanted to someday build a custom bolt action based on an early Mauser or 1903, could you just buy the action as a C&R? That part is original.

Later you would have it changed to a different caliber and add other parts, making it non C&R at that point?

A stripped receiver or action is not considered C&R.

[Noonanda]

[OHOD]

Being a CRuFFLer is being a CRuFFLer.
I believe in keeping it true to what it is. As it is.

Ummm, I confused myself. Sorry.


By the way! If you see anyone that pretends to be a Leprechaun, please let me know.

[HskrVern]

Barreled receivers have always frustrated me to the point of indifference. If they aren't c&r how can major vendors such as rguns get away with selling them as such?

[Noonanda]

Barreled receivers have always frustrated me to the point of indifference. If they aren't c&r how can major vendors such as rguns get away with selling them as such?

because they havent been audited yet. I have purchased barrelled recievers from both individuals and companies before the ruling was official, yet I agree there are still companies selling them as c&R

[Interloper]

Notice that the law Noonanda posted specifically says importation

[Noonanda]

Notice that the law Noonanda posted specifically says importation

ATF ruling 85-10 addresses this as well.

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-85-10.pdf

In classifying firearms as curios or relics under this regulation, ATF has recognized only assembled firearms as curios or relics. Moreover, ATF’s classification of surplus military firearms as curios or relics has extended only to those firearms in their original military configuration. Frames or receivers of curios or relics and surplus military firearms not in their original military configuration were not generally recognized as curios or relics by ATF since they were not of special interest or value as collector’s items. More specifically, they did not meet the definition of curio or relic in section 178.11 as firearms of special interest to collectors by reason of a quality other than is ordinarily associated with sporting firearms or offensive or defensive weapons. Furthermore, they did not ordinarily have monetary value as novel, rare, or bizarre firearms; nor were they generally considered curios or relics because of their association with some historical figure, period or event.

I remember when this ruling was in the works cause everyione was asking ATF what did or did not constitute a C&R and what configuration must they be in.
Dont agree with it, but there are a lot of laws I dont agree with

[Interloper]

Once again I think we're tripping over the not so subtle difference between a Curio and a Relic. An Albanian SKS is not a relic because it's not 50 years old. If it's been significantly modified I would agree that it's also no longer a Curio.
Contrast that to an M91/30. No matter what you do to it you never change the fact that the receiver is over 50 years old. Since Curios are governed by special rulings on the part of ATF to determine their status as collectible, unique, or of historic interest; changing them significantly essentially makes them into something else. Just another firearm. Relics on the other hand need only be 50 years old...and since ATF only considers the receiver to be the gun, I can't see a stock swap, or for that matter the absence of a stock, negating it's Relic status.

[gunboat]

Seems like this falls into the catagory of "don't ask, don't tell" --

[Noonanda]

Seems like this falls into the catagory of "don't ask, don't tell" --

or the preamble to the 2nd amendment LOL

[rjf]

So when was the ATF given the power to make law?