Rasheed/rashid C&R Ok in CA?

[valleyrat]

Can this rifle be shipped to a C&R holder in California, or does it need to be shipped to a 03FFL and then dealer transferred? I would like to purchase one of these from out of state.

Nathan

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Raschid

Can this rifle be shipped to a C&R holder in California, or does it need to be shipped to a 03FFL and then dealer transferred? I would like to purchase one of these from out of state.

Nathan

I don't think Rasheeds are old enough yet. In order to be shipped to a C&R holder (03 FFL) in California a long gun needs to be at least 50 years old. If a rifle isn't yet 50 years old then it needs to be shipped to a Dealer (01 FFL) in California and then transfered to you.

A California C&R FFL holder can travel out of state and buy one in person though.

[Pthfndr]

They started making Rashids in 1956 - 51 years ago. It's OK.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

They started making Rashids in 1956 - 51 years ago. It's OK.

You would just need to make sure that the one you wanted to have shipped directly to you was made before 1957 then. I often see the date of manufacture listed in ads for Rashids, so they probably have a date stamped on them somewhere. The last few I've seen for sale on the Empire Arms web site have all been late 1960's dated though.

[RaceDay]

I didn't know Rashids were made so early.

I think it depends on the gun. Kind of like the 1958 K31's are still not legal. I can't read the date symbols on the Egyptian guns but the Hakims and Rashids for sale at Empire Arms have all been in the mid 60s so FFL01 would be required in CA.

[Steyr_223]

Please see the magic Arabic date decoder:

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/4653/decode.htm

Oldest Rashid on record was made in 1966.

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=177755

"So far 217 rasheeds have been accounted for:
26 from 1966 ser no 1420-2104
52 from 1967 ser no 210x-3586
139 from 1968 ser no 3636-8391
looks like 1966 are tough ones to find, please send any new info to me thanks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by - kennedy on 05/23/2007 830 PM "

[AJAX22]

the 50 year issue doesn't apply to C&R long guns which are sent to a licence holder.

If you have a C&R licence, and the rifle is FEDERALLY listed as a C&R item, then you can receive it in the mail. the 50 year old requirement only applies to FTF transactions within california.

so yes you can get it in CA.

[EOD Guy]

the 50 year issue doesn't apply to C&R long guns which are sent to a licence holder.

If you have a C&R licence, and the rifle is FEDERALLY listed as a C&R item, then you can receive it in the mail. the 50 year old requirement only applies to FTF transactions within california.

so yes you can get it in CA.

You are incorrect. California requires all firearms to be transferred through an 01 dealer. There is no exception for C&R FFL holders. The 50 year old exception is available to anyone licensed or not. That is why C&R FFL holders can have them shipped directly from an out of state supplier.

[AJAX22]

California requires all pistols to be transfered through an 01 dealer, the whole point of having a C&R licence is that you can have rifles which meet the federal definition of C&R shipped directly too you. the fact that california miss defines what constitutes a C&R rifle and has limited face to face transactions to 50 years and older has no bearing on those of us with the licence.

I'll root around and find the relevent sections.

[EOD Guy]

California requires all pistols to be transfered through an 01 dealer, the whole point of having a C&R licence is that you can have rifles which meet the federal definition of C&R shipped directly too you. the fact that california miss defines what constitutes a C&R rifle and has limited face to face transactions to 50 years and older has no bearing on those of us with the licence.

I'll root around and find the relevent sections.

[AJAX22]

Do you have a link to the penal code text?

I might be in the wrong here, but I believe that the law states that for the purpouses of the section C&R's are defined by Title 27, sec 178.11 and not considered to be firearms.

also the law states that it is illigal to sell to a non licenced person, the illigal action is not in the purchase but in the sale. If someone with a licence out of state sells me a rifle in accordance with the state laws where they are at and in accordance with federal law, and I buy it in accordance with federal law, and there is no state law prohibiting me from purchasing it, then how is it breaking the law?

The 50 year requirement is for an exemption to dealer SALE, not purchase if I read it correctly.

throughtout the penal code the term C&R is defined by title 27, and refered to as an exception from the definition of firearm.

I don't have time to get heavily into it right now, and I may be totally wrong, but I think its worth looking into.


*Edited to add: I'm not just trying to argue to be a pr*ck I actually want to fully understand this section of the law as it applies to me, its not something I want to misconstrue and ten rifles later find out I made a mistake*

[EOD Guy]

Do you have a link to the penal code text?

You can look it up here. Dangerous Weapons Control Law

I might be in the wrong here, but I believe that the law states that for the purpouses of the section C&R's are defined by Title 27, sec 178.11 and not considered to be firearms.

It's section 478.11 and no-where does it say C&R firearms are not considered to be firearms. They are regulated under both the Gun Control Act of 1968 and the California Dangerous Weapons Control Law. Don't confuse C&R with antique firearms. Antique firearms are those generally manufactured in 1898 or earlier and are not regulted as firearms.

also the law states that it is illigal to sell to a non licenced person, the illigal action is not in the purchase but in the sale. If someone with a licence out of state sells me a rifle in accordance with the state laws where they are at and in accordance with federal law, and I buy it in accordance with federal law, and there is no state law prohibiting me from purchasing it, then how is it breaking the law?

There is no law forbidding sale to unlicensed persons unless they are residents of different states. California law states that all TRANSFERS of firearms in California must be processed through a California licensed dealer. I say again, there is no exception for C&R FFL Holders. You must still comply with California state law.

The 50 year requirement is for an exemption to dealer SALE, not purchase if I read it correctly.

No, it is an exception to the requirement that transfers between private parties must be processed through a dealer.

throughtout the penal code the term C&R is defined by title 27, and refered to as an exception from the definition of firearm.

No-where in the Penal Code does it except C&R firearms from the definition of a firearm.

I don't have time to get heavily into it right now, and I may be totally wrong, but I think its worth looking into.


*Edited to add: I'm not just trying to argue to be a pr*ck I actually want to fully understand this section of the law as it applies to me, its not something I want to misconstrue and ten rifles later find out I made a mistake*

Here is an explanation of the California C&R regulations that I wrote and had an attorney review.

[-hanko]

I might be in the wrong here, but I believe that the law states that for the purpouses of the section C&R's are defined by Title 27, sec 178.11 and not considered to be firearms.

The 50 year requirement is for an exemption to dealer SALE, not purchase if I read it correctly.

I don't have time to get heavily into it right now, and I may be totally wrong, but I think its worth looking into.

EOD Guy is/always has been spot-on with c&r legal info.

In the prk, long guns <50 years old have to transfer through an -01 licensee. Long guns at least 50 years old can be shipped from out of state directly to you if you have a C&R license. Long guns at least 50 years old can also be sold within the state without an ffl transfer, whether or not the buyer and/or seller have c&r licenses. The sale does not have to be face-to-face.

-hanko

[M. D. Van Norman]

Ajax has correctly pointed out that the restrictions in question apply to sales. As far as I can tell, nowhere in the various and sundry firearms laws of California are the importation and/or ownership of non-prohibited weapons forbidden. Can anyone cite the chapter and verse that says otherwise? I have been unable to find it after repeated searching.

Only federal law governs interstate trade. In our limited fashion, licensed collectors of curios and relics may participate in this trade. Therefore, I conclude that a licensee in California may legally acquire any non-prohibited C&R firearm, regardless of its age or type.

[-hanko]

Therefore, I conclude that a licensee in California may legally acquire any non-prohibited C&R firearm, regardless of its age or type.

C&R guns <50 years old are transferred through an -01 ffl in the prk.

-hanko