New additions to the ATF C&R list

[Flintlock Tom]

The ATF has published their updated list for 2009-2010:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/update-january-2009-june-2010.html

A notable addition is the Polish, Model P64 pistol. These are abundant and dirt cheap. They enjoy respectable reviews and the ammo is not hard to find.

Which brings up a question for those of us in California. C&R firearms are exempt from the "Handgun Roster", but is that the state definition of C&R (over 50 years) or the Federal definition ("on the list"). In other words, can we import this gun, either through our local 01FFL or go out of state to get it with our 03FFL? Since it's under 50 years old, it doesn't technically meet the CA definition of "C&R".

[ke6guj]

Which brings up a question for those of us in California. C&R firearms are exempt from the "Handgun Roster", but is that the state definition of C&R (over 50 years) or the Federal definition ("on the list"). In other words, can we import this gun, either through our local 01FFL or go out of state to get it with our 03FFL? Since it's under 50 years old, it doesn't technically meet the CA definition of "C&R".

there is no CA definition of C&R. Anything that is federally C&R, either by being on the list, or by being 50+ year-old, is C&R in CA.

So, yes, those handguns could be transfered through an 01FFL as being roster-exempt, or bought physically out of state and brought back to CA with your 03FFL (and register it within 5-days),

[PEZHEAD265]

there is no CA definition of C&R. Anything that is federally C&R, either by being on the list, or by being 50+ year-old, is C&R in CA.

So, yes, those handguns could be transfered through an 01FFL as being roster-exempt, or bought physically out of state and brought back to CA with your 03FFL (and register it within 5-days),

I'm confused in any other state a C&R firearm is cash&carry but here it has to be 50 years old.Does that effect this pistol?The only down fall to the P64 is the very heavy trigger pull in single and double action.

[Cokebottle]

I'm confused in any other state a C&R firearm is cash&carry but here it has to be 50 years old.Does that effect this pistol?The only down fall to the P64 is the very heavy trigger pull in single and double action.

California requires DROS on any handgun manufactured after 1898.

[HskrVern]

The ATF has published their updated list for 2009-2010:

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/curios-relics/update-january-2009-june-2010.html

A notable addition is the Polish, Model P64 pistol. These are abundant and dirt cheap. They enjoy respectable reviews and the ammo is not hard to find.

Which brings up a question for those of us in California. C&R firearms are exempt from the "Handgun Roster", but is that the state definition of C&R (over 50 years) or the Federal definition ("on the list"). In other words, can we import this gun, either through our local 01FFL or go out of state to get it with our 03FFL? Since it's under 50 years old, it doesn't technically meet the CA definition of "C&R".

J&G sales has the p64s for sale (had me excited a bit) but doing some research there are a lot of guys doggin' it for horrible DA trigger pull and crappy construction.

[dirtyJ]

there is no CA definition of C&R. Anything that is federally C&R, either by being on the list, or by being 50+ year-old, is C&R in CA.

So, yes, those handguns could be transfered through an 01FFL as being roster-exempt, or bought physically out of state and brought back to CA with your 03FFL (and register it within 5-days),

I'm pretty sure CA requires official C&R designation be applied only to firearms that are on the list AND 50+ years old, hence the Yugo M59/66 not being C&C'able.

[ke6guj]

I'm pretty sure CA requires official C&R designation be applied only to firearms that are on the list AND 50+ years old, hence the Yugo M59/66 not being C&C'able.

no, CA follows federal law on C&R designations. CA just has it own laws that say that a long gun must be C&R and 50-years old in order to be transfered without using an 01FFL.

The fact that CA won't let you C&C a Yugo M59/66 doesn't mean that it isn't considered C&R in CA, just that it isn't old enough to be C&C'ed by anyone in CA.

And they don't allow C&R handguns of any age to be transfered without using an 01FFL. But you can use the roster exemption that applies to all C&R handguns to purchase a <50 year-old C&R handgun, such as a Bren 10.

[dirtyJ]

True, the actual designation is Federal based, but CA has their own retarded crap that restricts the transfer of things.

[lavgrunt]

I'm pretty sure CA requires official C&R designation be applied only to firearms that are on the list AND 50+ years old, hence the Yugo M59/66 not being C&C'able.

The Yugo 59/66's in original form are not allowed in California because of the grenade launcher attachment, which makes it a DD in this F**ed up state........Has nothing to do with the C&R status.......

[beemaze]

All I can say is this: Time to find me a nice P-64!

[dfletcher]

IIRC, the CA specific specification of "and must be greater than 50 years old" is for a "dealerless sale" and has nothing to do with impacting the C & R status. Since all handgun sales (to include C & R) must go through a Type 01 FFL, including those shipped from out of state, there is no real effect on a C & R handgun sale. The handgun is roster exempt because it is, to include by CA standards, a C & R. But it is not afforded a dealerless sale because a) it is a handgun and b) it is not greater than 50 years old.

Where the "must be greater than 50 years old" for a dealerless sale can have an impact is with respect to long guns. Since C & R eligible long guns can be received by Type 03s in CA and sellers from other states know this, they'll mail away to a CA Type 03 holder with no isssue. If you buy a 1940s made SMLE that's fine. If you buy a 1960s made Ishapore 7.62 (or a slightly pre 64 Winchester 94) - not so good, since it's not +50 years old, even though it's a C & R (and is a C & R per CA) it is not afforded a dealerless sale.

I'm guessing this is an often overlooked fine point.

[Cokebottle]

IIRC, the CA specific specification of "and must be greater than 50 years old" is for a "dealerless sale" and has nothing to do with impacting the C & R status. Since all handgun sales (to include C & R) must go through a Type 01 FFL, including those shipped from out of state, there is no real effect on a C & R handgun sale. The handgun is roster exempt because it is, to include by CA standards, a C & R. But it is not afforded a dealerless sale because a) it is a handgun and b) it is not greater than 50 years old.

Where the "must be greater than 50 years old" for a dealerless sale can have an impact is with respect to long guns. Since C & R eligible long guns can be received by Type 03s in CA and sellers from other states know this, they'll mail away to a CA Type 03 holder with no isssue. If you buy a 1940s made SMLE that's fine. If you buy a 1960s made Ishapore 7.62 (or a slightly pre 64 Winchester 94) - not so good, since it's not +50 years old, even though it's a C & R (and is a C & R per CA) it is not afforded a dealerless sale.

I'm guessing this is an often overlooked fine point.

One exception to the 01FFL requirement.
An 03FFL can travel to a different state, make a C&R purchase in accordance with the laws of that state, physically bring the handgun home with him, and declare it within 10 days for $19.
Registration is still required, but an 01FFL is not needed to import it.

Now... a $75 FFL transfer fee/DROS is cheaper than the gas to get from LA to anywhere you can cash and carry a C&R handgun, so it's not really economical to do so, but if you're on vacation or otherwise just happen to be passing through a free state.... feel free!

[dfletcher]

One exception to the 01FFL requirement.
An 03FFL can travel to a different state, make a C&R purchase in accordance with the laws of that state, physically bring the handgun home with him, and declare it within 10 days for $19.
Registration is still required, but an 01FFL is not needed to import it.

Now... a $75 FFL transfer fee/DROS is cheaper than the gas to get from LA to anywhere you can cash and carry a C&R handgun, so it's not really economical to do so, but if you're on vacation or otherwise just happen to be passing through a free state.... feel free!

Yep - I bring my C & R with me whenever I'm out of state, I also carry it on my handheld. Bought a nice Colt OM Match a few years back home. A bucket of whole belly fried clams (real stuff, not the crap they have out here) and one Colt to go please.

I think, depending on the car, we might be able to do Reno & back for less than $75.00 gas from SF area. Close anyway.

[Cokebottle]

I think, depending on the car, we might be able to do Reno & back for less than $75.00 gas from SF area. Close anyway.

240 miles each way?
$75 will buy about 23 gallons down here, so ya... 21mpg would do it.
My bike costs about $0.10/mile or a little less.

We've actually got about the same here.... Parker and Quartzsite are about 250, and Vegas is about 280.

[nick]

Looks like I wasted my letter. Oh well, whatever works