Buck and ball

[Scarecrow Repair]

I have an 1842 .69 Springfield musket coming soon, and I'd like to try the "buck and ball" load -- the more holes the merrier.

I also have an 1861 .58 Springfield rifle. I load that with either pre-greased patch and ball or greased Minie. Not that I intend to shoot buck and ball from the rifle, but that's where my knowledge pretty much ends.

What is the proper procedure for loading buck and ball? If I add three buckshot after the ball, what keeps them from falling out? Are there wads available for that?

How many and what size buckshot?

I have a couple of blackpowder books, but they don't mention these details. Heck, they don't even say anything useful about buck and ball, other than a mention of buck and ball in separate barrels of a double barreled shotgun.

Say, while I'm at it ... I accidentally ordered some Minie balls in .69 instead of .58. Is there any problem firing them from the 1842 smoothbore? Might not be very useful, but I'd hate to just melt them down without trying at least a few first.

[socalguns]

This seems correct

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_and_ball

Buck and ball was issued in paper cartridges that combined the projectiles with the black powder propellant charge to facilitate rapid loading of the weapon. The buckshot would set in front of the ball, so that the ball would act as a gas seal for the buckshot. Like any other paper cartridge, the rear of the cartridge would be torn open to expose the powder, which would be loaded, and the remaining paper, balls, and buckshot would be rammed down on top.

[Scarecrow Repair]

Yeh, but what holds the buckshot in? The ball is held in place by the patch, but the bucks are loose. Seems like you'd need some kind of wad to be put in on top of everything.

[socalguns]

The paper (you never remove the ball/shot from the paper).
Take a look at the picture here

http://www.iusb.edu/~journal/2000/image/stanage6.png

http://www.iusb.edu/~journal/2000/stanage.html

[Scarecrow Repair]

The paper (you never remove the ball/shot from the paper).
Take a look at the picture here

http://www.iusb.edu/~journal/2000/image/stanage6.png

http://www.iusb.edu/~journal/2000/stanage.html

I've seen that report before, pretty interesting. But I've never made paper cartridges. I am pretty new to muzzle loading but sure having a blast.

If I want to make those cartridges, how do I do it -- where do I get the paper? I have heard of muzzle loaders who tear open the paper with their teeth, dump in the powder, throw the paper down as a wad, ram the bullet, etc etc, but this sounds different, like you dump the entire cartridge in, intact. How does the cap light off the powder if it is in the cartridge?

[redneckshootist]

I've never shot buck and ball loads but I do have a muzzle loading shotgun and I just use card board and poster board cut to just oversize so that it makes a tight seal. you will want to have an over powder wad and a overshot wad but I would weigh the ball plus the buck together dont go over an ounce of lead (ruffly 430grains) with 80 grains of powder by volume. I use that load in my 12gadge muzzle loading shotgun.

[redneckshootist]

I almost forgot the cardboard goes over the powder and the poster board goes over the shot.

[socalguns]

You got the right idea, you tear off the back and pour the powder,
you fold over the end you tore and ram the whole thing down.
That's the way Gunny does it

One way to make'em

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144094

[Scarecrow Repair]

I almost forgot the cardboard goes over the powder and the poster board goes over the shot.

That's for straight buckshot, right? If I run a patched full size ball down first, no need for anything between powder and ball, I think.

[Scarecrow Repair]

One way to make'em
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=144094

Now that looks interesting. I will have to look for rolling papers. I wonder if there are any head shops around here ....

[redneckshootist]

That's for straight buckshot, right? If I run a patched full size ball down first, no need for anything between powder and ball, I think.

the over powder wad is mainly a gas seal whitch is what the patch deos so if you used a patched round ball you wouldnt need the over powder was just an overshot wad to prevent seperation of the buck and ball.

I like that paper setup I will have to try that this weekend and see how it goes. It would shure make loading easier

[socalguns]

You could probably get away with anything thiN enough,
newsprint, regular notebook paper,
wax paper. Probably cheaper than rolling papers
would be tissue paper, the kind used for gift-wrapping
and pattern-tracing (seamstress...)

[Scarecrow Repair]

I bought some rolling papers at the grocery store, $1.09 for 100. That's cheap enough.

I am still waiting for the 1842 Springfield to arrive, slow shipping ...

[redneckshootist]

range report on using rolling papers idea. for the 36cal pistol, and 44cal cap and ball it worked great and it shure sped up the loading process, but the papers were too small for .530 round balls so I will have to try something else

[Scarecrow Repair]

range report on using rolling papers idea. for the 36cal pistol, and 44cal cap and ball it worked great and it shure sped up the loading process, but the papers were too small for .530 round balls so I will have to try something else

That's interesting. Could you use two papers per cartridge? I am going to be trying some .69 caliber ones and might run into that problem.

A black powder reenactor at the Woodland Scottish Games said he just used shotgun wads for his buck and ball, and that since he liked to hit what he was aiming at, he didn't shoot the smoothbore often enough for the cost to be a problem.

But roll-your-own cartridges still might be handy to speed things up.