HELP I've got a "HAMMERLESS" antique 5 shot

[2gunzbaghdad]

I'm not sure how to upload photos or even if I can but I have an antique Derringer type pistol (profile photo) that doesn't have a manufacture as far as I can tell.

It has "HAMMERLESS" on the top of the gun above the cylinder, 5 shots, 3 mint type marks (one of them looks like "6 W/N", one looks like an integrated anchor with something written above it and the last one looks like an "R")

I thought it was a .22 but when I broke out my cleaning kit to give it the once over the brush just barely hit the sides. Maybe it's a .25?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. ... Here are the photos http://2gunzbaghdad.collectorguns356...view/aid/17350

[locktime]

Baby Hammerless by the Columbian Firearms Manufacturing Co. ?

[2gunzbaghdad]

I'll check it

Not sounding too sure are you, but it's a start, I will search it. There are no manufacture names on it. Did you come up with your idea by the proof marks?

Thanks

[Mike A]

Not a Kolb Baby Hammerless, I'm pretty sure. Probably Belgian and chambered for either a 6mm rimfire (now obsolete) or more likely, the 6.35mm Browning ctg. that we know as the .25ACP. That was a fairly popular ctg. for small European revolvers back in the day because it was popular in small autos and has a little rim that allows it to eject from revolvers too. Try fitting a .25 ACP in it. If it won't fit, it's probably a 6mm.

Look it over for a proof mark that is a crown over ELG; that would be a Belgian proof mark. The good news is that if it is a .25ACP, it is proofed for smokeless powder.

Not worth much; just a good example of a common self-defense revolver of the period 1905-1940, IMO.

[2gunzbaghdad]

True, NOT a Kolby. I stayed up till late / wee hours of the morning scowering the net and came up with a possible gun that looks fairly close called an "ARMINIUS Velodog in 7.65 mm" the only thing is it doesn't have a caliber or serial number marking.

anyone else?

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Looks like a Velodog revolver to me. And it is not a derringer. Or even a derringer style. It is a revolver. My guess would be that it is a 6mm Flobert design. RWS and a few other European companies still load it. It is similar to a CB Cap, but they are not interchangeable. These kinds of guns were used for parlor shooting and to keep dogs away from bicyclists at the turn of the 20th century.

Here is a link for sombody selling ammo for it:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=169299806

[singleshotman]

i'm sure it's a Velodog revolver, ammo is hard to find.

[Mike A]

If it's a Velo Dog (means "bicycle-dog") the chambers will be MUCH longer than the 6mm RF or the .25 ACP.

I SUSPECT that the "Hammerless" marking shows that it was intended for export to an English speaking country, probably the US since Britain had very strong "protectionist" tariffs to keep cheap foriegn handguns out, and even legally imported ones were marked "Not English Make" by law. That would argue against it being in 6mm RF, which was never a common ctg. here. .25ACP and 5.5mm Velo Dog were, tho. That cylinder looks long enough to take the Velo Dog....

[gun toting monkeyboy]

I'm sticking with 6mm Flobert. It is marked 6m/m, and it does not appear to be a pinfire. Do a google search for those terms.

[Tools2Die4]

I have the same problem

I've come into possession of a gun that looks like your photo (some small differences...I could not enlarge the photo you attached-but thank you for it)and has similar markings. I cannot ID it. Hopefully, I've given enough detail below so that some kind soul can provide an answer as to manufacturer, origin, and approximate value.

With the gun barrel pointing to the left, the far side top of the barrel is stamped Central F.V.D. Just to the grip end of the barrel and to the right of the above is stamped 6m/m. A sighting groove runs the barrel length and on the near side is stamped Hammerless. The A is poorly stamped.

Again, with the barrel pointing left, the near side has a "swing" or pivot style safety. The frame contains two detents for the safety. By the top detent is an S (for Safe) and by the lower detent is an F (for Fire). The grip is made of plastic, with a finely "checkered" design. At the top of the molded grip is an oval with the detail of a man's head. He sports a pointed beard, has shoulder length wavy hair, and wears a helmet or hat that sports a wing, sweeping to the back of his head.

There is a screw in the top of the frame (looking down at the top of the revolver) near the butt of the gun. It appears to retain a precisely machined metal plate...I've not dissassembled the gun to this level...I don't want to ruin it. I did remove the cylinder. It is stamped 47. The firing pin is round...and stuck. Diameter of the cartridge holes in the cylinder, measured with calipers, is .251". Muzzle opening is .225". Overall length of cylinder is 1.400". Frame is .435" thick. Overall length of revolver is approx. 5.6".

The trigger flips up, towards the barrel end, and disappears into the frame except for a small staight knurled end that allows for the operator to pull the trigger down and into position.

In the curvature of the frame, where a trigger would be found on modern revolvers, there is a small screw that holds a perfectly machined metal plate that is also held in place by small "V" grooves at each end.

With the barrel pointed to the right, the revolver displays a loading gate and a groove in the frame to accomodate the loading process. The cylinder holds 5 rounds. On the side of the gate that faces the cartridges, the number 47 is stamped.

At the front of the frame, a rod may be extracted. The rod is held in place by a swinging (pivots on a pin) retaining clamp that swings toward the operator if the barrel is pointed towards the right. It has a small "L" shaped flat spring attached to it by a spring. The spring rests on a flat side of the rod. Once the rod is removed, an odd shaped and partially knurled plate may be pulled toward the muzzle.

This plate is attached to the hollow pivot tube of the cylinder. The tube is actually two parts, and is held in place with a bowed flat spring, attached at both ends to the tube. On the muzzle side of the odd shaped plate the number 47 is stamped. Other stampings on the frame, visible with magnification, located on the near side with the barrel pointing to the right, appear to be a crown, with the peak of the crown pointed towards the barrel; oriented the same direction and just below the crown is a 1 (or maybe an "N"). On the barrel, in line with the frame stamp, is an identical crown, again with the point of the crown pointing towards the muzzle. On the butt, 5 numbers are stamped, presumably the serial number.

When this plate/pin is removed, the cylinder may be removed. The odd shaped plate fits the modified octogon shape that forms the barrel nearest the cylinder. This portion of the barrel is only 1/2" or so long. Moving toward the muzzle, the barrel is round and forged to retain a pressed-in blade style front sight. The sight slopes upward from the muzzle.

Any help will be appreciated! Thanks!





(still on top

I'm not sure how to upload photos or even if I can but I have an antique Derringer type pistol (profile photo) that doesn't have a manufacture as far as I can tell.

It has "HAMMERLESS" on the top of the gun above the cylinder, 5 shots, 3 mint type marks (one of them looks like "6 W/N", one looks like an integrated anchor with something written above it and the last one looks like an "R")

I thought it was a .22 but when I broke out my cleaning kit to give it the once over the brush just barely hit the sides. Maybe it's a .25?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. ... Here are the photos http://2gunzbaghdad.collectorguns356...view/aid/17350

[TRAP55]

Looks like a Velodog revolver to me. And it is not a derringer. Or even a derringer style. It is a revolver. My guess would be that it is a 6mm Flobert design. RWS and a few other European companies still load it. It is similar to a CB Cap, but they are not interchangeable. These kinds of guns were used for parlor shooting and to keep dogs away from bicyclists at the turn of the 20th century.

Here is a link for sombody selling ammo for it:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=169299806

That's what it is. Does it have a smooth bore? or does it have rifling?

http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/item/190036_UMAREX__Flobert_Cartridges__22_Ca.aspx

[a.tinkerer]

Guys, they're neat little *relatively insignificant* velodog revolvers.
They were cheap and plentiful when they were made, anyone/everyone who spent much time on their bike could have one in their pocket to use on unruly stray ankle-biting dogs.

A modern example of this kind of revolver is the little two hundred buck north american arms .22 single action revolvers.

You probabally could get somewhere between one and four hundred dollars from one at auction.




Cheers
Tinker

[Tools2Die4]

Thanks

Thanks for your help!