Looking for Info on OLD handgun

[Aitch]

Hi guys,
I bought this back in 1981 at a gun show... back in the less restricted era of CA gun ownership, when you could do such things.

It bears no serial number and the only markings on it at all are the words "Frontier Army" on the top of the Frame.
It is supposedly a .44-40.

All the bits function on it, but it locks up so loose that to use the words "lock up" is a total dis-service to the English language. I suppose you could still shoot it, but I reckon you'd have to be pretty suicidal to even consider it.

Any ideas on what this would be worth, if anything?
And how would you go about selling something like this? (with no serial number, brand/model, etc?)

Any nfo would be greatly appreciated...

[Argonaut]

The Europeans made a lot of cheep knock off guns before and around the turn of the century that were marketed to the US. They were mostly poor quality cheep to buy guns that they tried to compete with the US built revolvers and shotguns mostly. Many were built in Belgium. The "Frontier Army" marking would be consistent with these guns. A lot of them did not have serial numbers or other markings. There were a lot of Shotguns built like that too. Most shot loose quickly and have been wall hangers for 70 years. They had interesting style for marketing but the metal work was terrible in fit, finish and quality in general. I would NEVER shoot it and be suspect of the 44-40 cambering. The Europeans also had a lot of obscure low power cartridges. The 44-40 was a high intensity cartridge in it's time.

[ballistic]

Merwin, Hulbert & Co. once made a revolver they called the Froniter Army.
I found a picture of one but, it is a very different single action type.

I would guess yours is some type of lower priced import. Usually higher quality pieces will have more markings and patent numbers.

Ya' never know, it might be worth something.
You could take it around to some of the dealers at a big gunshow and see if anyone knows what it is.
Take it to the Antiques Roadshow and have one of their "experts" and see what they can tell you.

[gunboat]

I think it is a merwin and hurlbert -- about 1890 but I do not know the model -- Early models were open top like a colt ---- Not your everyday find - some can be pretty valuable -- my ha-penny

[locktime]

I agree with Argonaut.

Here's one on gunbroker.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=137898172

[TRAP55]

Like Argonaut said, it's a Belgian knock off of a Merwin, Hulbert. Shooting it with a gallery load would be a gamble of life and limb.
Somewhere on it should be a proof of the Belgian "ELG"

[The Custard Pirate]

Belgian made revolver, but not a copy of anything. Somewhere on the cylinder there should be a Belgian proof mark: an oval enclosing the letters ELG. They come up at on line antique dealers fairly often, Joe Salter has one or two right now http://www.joesalter.com/., and I know another dealer has one as well but I don't remember who. Value, $300-$600 depending on condition. I'd put yours toward the middle of the scale.

[Aitch]

Thanks for all the terrific info guys!

now that I look closer, I am seeing that you can just barely make out the "belgium" marking on the top of the barrel, and there are actually some markings on the back of the cylinger that I can't quite make out.

Would something like this need to be drossed?
I mean without serial numbers, how do you even figure its exact age?
I bought this cash-n-carry back in 1981-ish, from a guy at a gun show, so it isn't even officially "registered" in my name. Am I looking at issues there?

[a.tinkerer]

Aitch-


Get your camera back out and put it on the macro setting.
Get the clearest images that you can of the proof marks on that cylinder and any other little marks you can see on the revolver.
It's likely a genuine antique.

As for paperweight status -- you can pretty much bet it's still to be considered a paperweight, only a slightly more valuable paperweight than you'd have thought!


PS
I might have a buyer for it.
ping me with a personal message if you end up looking to part with it.

Cheers
Tinker

[Aitch]

I might follow up with you after the holidays tinker.

Thanks again for all the feedback... Any thoughts on my "sale legalities" questions, guys?

[Mike A]

It is likely Belgian (check the gun; it should have a little crown with ELG stamped under it; if not, it is probably Spanish. But I'd bet money on Belgian...). Probably a mixture of design features; they stole pretty freely in those days (has that changed much???). But it has some features of the British Webley RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) revolvers, which were sturdy and cheap to make, and made in many variations from little pocket .320s to huge "Frontier" size .577s. Very popular Belgian knockoffs--they made millions of them from the late 1860s up to 1939. So it's pretty hard to PROVE that your gun is a legal antique (pre-1898). It certainly IS C&R, tho.

I believe that if you scan the gun sections of turn-of-the-century (19th, that is) Sears and Wards catalogs, you will find your gun. At least I remember a revolver with that name and a solid frame being sold by one or the other of those catalogs. They also sold Belgian and Spanish knockoffs of the S&W 1881 DA Frontier with that same name, but those are breaktop revolvers.

Agree with other posters; best not fired with smokeless ammo, and probably be pretty leaky and unreliable with black powder in the condition it is. Neat collectible, tho. People don't realize how common this kind of gun was, back in the day. LOTS of our ancestors just couldn't afford a Colt or S&W or Merwin & Hulbert.

[Aitch]

Thanks for the info. Yeah, I think stated pretty clearly that I wouldn't even consider storing this thing in the same zip code as ammunition for other weapons... let alone putting any ammo into it and pulling the trigger.

Anyone who would even consider attempting to fire a weapon like this would have to have a serious death wish!

This is nothing but a wallhanger, a collector piece and if I were to sell it, I'd STRONGLY advise the new owner to not let it anywhere near a bullet of any kind.

It is a Belgian gun... I have since found a very faint marking on the top of the barrel indicating this. So I pretty much know what this is now...
...just wasn't sure of the "contractual obligations" required of a sale (since that's what I'm considering.)

Since there's no serial number or such, I don't know how you'd prove its exact age.
I've also found a few markings on the back of the cylinder and will try to post a few pics when I get a chance.

And again... thanks for sharing your knowledge!

[a.tinkerer]

Aitch-


It's almost certainly an antique, definitely Belgian.
Proof marks can be very helpful in putting a timeline on a gun.
Some proof marks were only used from X-date until Y-date etc.

I'll take a look in the PM box in a couple weeks or so, enjoy your holidays!

My sense is that the only contractual obligations would include such things as firm handshakes and cold beers.


Cheers
Tinker

[Aitch]

Two of my favorite things Tinker!

[Jarhead]

nothing like researcing a C&R firearm, let us know what you learn.