Nat' 'Ord M1 Carbine .30 Cal C&R?

[sheshotme]

Looking to purchase a National Ordinance M1 Carbine .30 cal off someone. I have FFL03. I don't see it on the ATF's C&R list. Seems only wartime m1 carbine's are C&R. I was told by the owner this M1 was purchased sometime mid-70's. Serial 12,XXX. So 2nd block, B markings (pre-1968). Making this one possibly 50+ years old. Can I C&R this in CFARS?

[Spyder]

If you can verify for sure that it is 50+ years old, sure. But that one may be a hard one to verify exact date.

[Quiet]

AFAIK...
National Ordinance made M-1 Carbines from 1958-1977.
Only the ones that were made before 1974 would be considered C&R in 2024.

[sofbak]

AFAIK...
National Ordinance made M-1 Carbines from 1958-1977.
Only the ones that were made before 1974 would be considered C&R in 2024.

Not necessarily. The BATFE has, on written request, classified later production models of firearms as C&R eligible. In '04, I was purchasing
(with my C&R) a Garand made in 1956. Through another Garand centric site, I was able to acquire a copy of the BATFE letter that basically said: If it is manufactured to the same dimensional specs, functions as the original design, and uses the same caliber/type of ammunition, it was deemed C&R.

These days good luck getting a written response from the BATFE, even though it is part of their "job".

As an alternative, I would suggest contacting National Ordinance. I can easily imagine this issue has come up before, and if anyone had that determination from the BATFE, they should.

HTH

[Quiet]

As an alternative, I would suggest contacting National Ordinance. I can easily imagine this issue has come up before, and if anyone had that determination from the BATFE, they should.

Good luck with that.

AFAIK...
In 1977, National Ordinance was acquired by Federal Ordinance.
In 1992, Federal Ordinance was acquired by Briklee Trading Company.
In 2000, Briklee Trading Company went into bankruptcy and was dissolved.

[sofbak]

Good luck with that.

AFAIK...
In 1977, National Ordinance was acquired by Federal Ordinance.
In 1992, Federal Ordinance was acquired by Briklee Trading Company.
In 2000, Briklee Trading Company went into bankruptcy and was dissolved.

Uuuugh. I didn't know that. So Plans B & C might be:

B. Register and go fishing on the CMP M1 Carbine Forum for someone who may have such a letter in hand. It was via the CMP Garand forum that I connected.

C. Find the appropriate contact in the BATFE and write them asking for a determination. (Yeah, I know, but it is possible).

[microwaveguy]

Based on this web page you maybe able to ID the date range based on where the serial number is located.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_NATORD3.HTML

[SVT-40]

Uuuugh. I didn't know that. So Plans B & C might be:

B. Register and go fishing on the CMP M1 Carbine Forum for someone who may have such a letter in hand. It was via the CMP Garand forum that I connected.

C. Find the appropriate contact in the BATFE and write them asking for a determination. (Yeah, I know, but it is possible).

You can't just "write" the BATFE and ask for a determination. I believe you have to submit the firearm to them along with the request.

[IronsightsRifleman]

C&R is defined by regulation in 27 C.F.R. ? 478.11

Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:

(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;

(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and

(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

The only one that applies here is whether or not it was manufactured at least 50 years prior to the present date. You'll have to do your research to pin down the date from the serial number. Some info can be found here.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_NATORD3.HTML

You might apply a simple linear interpolation of serial numbers over the date ranges. It's not perfectly valid, but it's at least a reasonable approach that would be defensible if it came to that.