Conversion Cylinder question

[sirdutch]

I bought a Pietta 1858 Remington black powder revolver some years back that I purchased used, that included a conversion cylinder, the kind that doesn't have a loading gate. You have to remove the conversion cylinder to reload.

I bought it mostly because the Remy looked to be unfired and the conversion cylinder was practically free. (Oddly, the conversion cylinder is stainless and the Remy is blued.)

I almost didn't go through with the sale as the shop owner said he would have to D.R.O.S. it because of the conversion cylinder. The regular BP cylinder was in the gun. It was such a good price though so I went ahead with it.

I've always wondered if having the conversion cylinder in at the range potentially means I've manufactured a firearm that could get me into trouble?

As this particular Remington did get D.R.O.S'ed, there really shouldn't be a question of legality of my Remington.

However, what happens if you buy a BP revolver without a D.R.O.S., (as it's technically not a firearm) is installing a conversion cylinder technically manufacturing a firearm and failure to register it in this state?

I know this sounds like a stupid question but California has onerous laws that are constantly in flux. I've never encountered an issue yet but I am curious about the potential issues with a conversion cylinder. Is it something we ought to worry over?

[Quiet]

However, what happens if you buy a BP revolver without a D.R.O.S., (as it's technically not a firearm) is installing a conversion cylinder technically manufacturing a firearm and failure to register it in this state?

I know this sounds like a stupid question but California has onerous laws that are constantly in flux. I've never encountered an issue yet but I am curious about the potential issues with a conversion cylinder. Is it something we ought to worry over?

Starting 07-01-2018, in regards to metallic cartridge conversion of blackpowder revolver that is considered an antique firearm and CA laws/regulations...

Installing a metallica cartridge conversion to a blackpowder revolver, changes the antique firearm into a non-antique firearm.

This will cause the firearm to no longer qualify for the antique firearm exemptions to CA self-made firearm laws.

Which means it can now (post-2018) be confiscated as evidence of violating CA self-made firearm laws, due to not having CA DOJ marking info engraved on it and not being registered in AFS.
^Effective 07-01-2023, possession of a non-exempt unmarked handgun is illegal in CA. [PC 23920(a)]
~Effective 01-01-2024, possession of any non-exempt unmarked firearm is illegal in CA. [PC 23920(b)]

In order to avoid all that, the antique firearm will need to have a serial number engraved on it by the licensed manufacturer of the antique firearm [11 CCR 5508(a)] or the firearm would need to be engraved with CA DOJ marking info & registered with CA DOJ [PC 29180(b)].
^Several new production blackpowder firearm manufacturers are or have been marking them with their info (name, serial number, etc), which makes them exempt [11 CCR 5508(a)].

In addition, since with the metallic cartridge conversion installed these are no longer considered antique firearms, they will also need to be transferred through a CA FFL dealer, if sold/gifted/loaned/etc. [PC 27545]

[sirdutch]

This is a Pietta clone of an 1858 Remington and not an antique.

[Quiet]

This is a Pietta clone of an 1858 Remington and not an antique.

It meets the Federal and CA definition of an "antique firearm". [PC 16170(b) and 18 USC 921(a)(16)(B)]

With a metallic cartridge conversion installed, it will no longer meet the Federal and CA definition of an "antique firearm". [18 USC 921(a)(16)(B)(i)]


Penal Code 16170
(b) As used in Section 16520, Section 16650, subdivision (a) of Section 23630, paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 27505, and subdivision (a) of Section 31615, "antique firearm" has the same meaning as in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.

18 USC 921
(a) As used in this chapter-
(16) The term "antique firearm? means-
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica-
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ?antique firearm? shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

[NapalmCheese]

This is a Pietta clone of an 1858 Remington and not an antique.

The laws about antique firearms also cover replicas of antique firearms.

[The Gleam]

My only perplexing issue now is the decision of which gang I should join; Bloods, Crips, 18th Street, MS-13, Los Zetas... but the Dalton Brothers may be the most appropriate in light of the above.

---

[sirdutch]

Okay then. I accept the idea that my clone is an antique with the original cylinder in it.

My Remington "antique" went thru the D.R.O.S. process because he sold the Remi with a conversion cylinder in the box but not installed i the revolver. I had to wait 10 days to pick it up. If it went through the D.R.O.S. process, isn?t it basically registered? Or, did the D.O.J. just ignore the D.R.O.S. and it's not actually registered?

I've never actually used the cylinder conversion because I just wasn't sure of it's legality and don't wish to borrow trouble. It would be interesting if the D.O.J. has it listed as a registered handgun but I don't know how to go about. It bugs that I had to pay to D.R.O.S it and wait 10 days. Perhaps I will just sell the conversion cylinder. They are pricey and a little cash in hand is good too!

Thanks Quiet, and everyone else, for your input.

[sirdutch]

Is there a way to find out if my d.r.o.s.ed blackpowder Pietta actually got registered?

[CALI-gula]

My Remington "antique" went thru the D.R.O.S. process because he sold the Remi with a conversion cylinder in the box but not installed i the revolver. I had to wait 10 days to pick it up.

Sounds like he DROSed it to me. You got screwed on that. Total FUD move on the dealer's part. If the conversion cyl wasn't in the gun when sold there was no reason for him to DROS it even if he sold the conversion cyl with it and separate. Utter stupidity. Did he give you a copy of the DROS? Should have. Did you keep it? Should have.

.

[Spyder]

want to sell me your stainless conversion cylinder? I've got a stainless 1858 I want to shoot with cartridges.

[TRAP55]

Reminded me I had this in a box of parts. I think it's a Kirst? for .45Colt in a 1858 Rem. No idea what it's worth?

[edgerly779]

^^^ 150 bucks

[2761377]

that looks like one of two parts for a Taylor-style conversion.

without the rear plate, which holds the firing pins and engages the hand, it's basically worthless.

[prob]

that looks like one of two parts for a Taylor-style conversion.

without the rear plate, which holds the firing pins and engages the hand, it's basically worthless.

This.

Without the rear plate, you have an expensively machined paperweight.

[newbie1234]

Correct me if I am wrong.

(1) Don't need to DROS either original or replica black powder pistols.
(2) Don't need FFL to transfer either original or replica black powder pistols.
(3) The Conversion Cylinder is sold as the gun parts, no Serial Number, no FFL, no DROS.
(4) When buy BP pistol together with Conversion Cylinder online, the vendor has to do TWO DIFFERENCE TRANSACTIONS, one for the BP pistol and one for a gun part. Then send to you TWO DIFFERENCE PACKAGES, one package is the BP pistol, one package is gun part.
(5) Do the replica BP pistols have the Serial Number, if NO then how can the shop DROS ?
(6) The shop should sell you the BP pistol with its own BP cylinder on it as one transaction one receipt, then a "gun part" with another transaction another receipt. DO NOT install the Conversion Cylinder on the pistol when the shop sell it to you.