Trapdoor safe ammo?

[Cessnapilot89]

Hey Guys,

First greetings from Free America. Life outside of California is definitely different.

Does anyone load a trapdoor safe 45-70 round any more? My wife got me a trapdoor as a present and I am looking for some ammo while awaiting my dies to arrive.

[Tom-ADC]

Lookup data for Varget I used 300 gr lead and 405 gr lead in both my Sharps & Trapdoor. Varget has data for the Trapdoor also played with Unique.
Also good luck with IMR 3031.

[NoHeavyHitter]

Most ammo (with the exception of Buffalo Bore and similar others) "factory loads" are going to be tailored for safe shooting in a trapdoor.

Marlin 1895 and Ruger #1 loads will have abundant caution warnings on the box. Still, it pays to make certain you've got the right level of load for your gun.

[IrishJoe3]

There's a thread on that from a few months back. The trapdoor is an awesome gun, fun to shoot, easy to load for!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1800298

[Cessnapilot89]

Thank you!

[Dirtlaw]

Be safe and enjoy.

[otteray]

Don't use jacketed bullets. The steel in those old barrels are made with soft lead in mind. The Lyman reloading manuals have specific load data for trapdoor rifles.
Te internet archives has their older manual. https://archive.org/details/LymanRel.../n295/mode/2up

[RHT447]

Bought my original Trapdoor rifle in 1974. Been casting a loading for it ever since. As noted above, common commercial ammo is loaded to Trapdoor pressure levels, about 28,000 psi per SAAMI.

Also as noted, jacketed bullets not recommended in original guns. Repro's with modern steel, then no worries.

@ otterray's link, I started out with the Lyman 457124 mold and loading 29.0 grains of IMR 4198. Still use this same load. It was handy at the time as I had started loading 223 as well. I now use Varget for 223/5.56.

[19K]

I would assume that the HSM cowboy loads are. Contact HSM about it.

[Yetiultimate]

I like the Lee 400gr hollow base bullet over 5gr of 4759 and 55gr of lightly compressed black powder. Duplex loads are fun!

[otteray]

I like the Lee 400gr hollow base bullet over 5gr of 4759 and 55gr of lightly compressed black powder. Duplex loads are fun!

Much cleaner, too! I still have close to 5 lbs of 4759. Too bad it it has been discontinued.

[sbo80]

Most ammo (with the exception of Buffalo Bore and similar others) "factory loads" are going to be tailored for safe shooting in a trapdoor.

I always thought the opposite advice is true. That modern ammo, especially anything marketed as hunting ammo, was going to be for modern guns only. And that you should only use ammo that specifically mentions trapdoors, into a trapdoor.
Since I have a trapdoor on my "want" list, probably one of my next two or three purchases, this is of interest to me. I will likely reload for it eventually, but will end up with some factory stuff until I get around to dies etc.

[Cessnapilot89]

Thanks everyone. The rifle arrived Thursday and is stunning. It's killing me that I can't find a safe load locally to shoot through it!

[hundy]

Congratulations, you will really enjoy the rifle. I have a rifle and a carbine. There is a lot of good information already posted here, but I thought I would add my recent loads to your list. I use a 405gr coated lead bullet with 32gr of IMR 4198.

Good luck and enjoy.

[classicist]

I load for and shoot Trapdoors (along with other black powder single shot cartridge rifles) with some success. Trapdoors are originally black powder rifles, but most loading manuals will identify some smokeless powder loads that are supposedly safe to shoot in a rifle in good condition. The consensus, it seems, is that maximum pressure should not exceed 28,000 psi. However, I have seen some manuals which treat 18,000 psi as maximum.

There is commercially made ammunition in that pressure range, but I cannot speak as to its availability. I understand that ammunition that is intended to be shot in Trapdoors will usually say something like: "Safe to shoot in all rifles in good condition."

However, with commercial ammunition you will have a lot of trouble getting the best from your rifle. The commercial loads which I have encountered use .458" bullets that are undersized for most or many Trapdoors. Also, as is the case with many 19th century rifles, Trapdoors have some variation in bore diameter. To add to that, measuring a bore slug is a difficult task due to the three groove rifling. In order to really enjoy your Trapdoor, I recommend reloading.

Others have mentioned that you should not use jacketed bullets, but I should add that my only good results have been with soft lead. I have had the best luck with soft lead 500 gn bullets and soft lead 400ish gn hollow base bullets. These stand the best chance of obturating to your rifle's individual bore, even if nominally undersized at .458" or .459". Both of these can be bought from bullet casters online. In addition, bullet moulds are readily available, like the popular Lee 459-405-HB.

As for smokeless powders, in addition to the suggestions above, I have had luck with AA5744. This stuff is high bulk and not particularly position sensitive. Load manuals will identify low pressure loads intended for Trapdoors in good condition.

However, I much prefer using a compressed load of about 55-60gn of Fg or FFg (I get the best consistency with Fg) black powder, with filler, and a 405 gn hollow base soft lead bullet. This approximates the US Army's cavalry load, and has been successful for me in multiple Trapdoors. In my 1879 dated full-length rifle, I can get groups of about 2 1/2" at 100 yards, hitting about 10" high. It's nothing to write home about, but not bad considering the Army's acceptance standard was 4", or so I am told.

There is a helpful book on reloading for Trapdoors by J.S. and Pat Wolf. Of course, make sure your rifle is safe to shoot before feeding it any ammunition. If you shoot modern rifles chambered in .45-70, be very careful not to mix up your ammunition.