First C&R purchase from a dealer

[Milsurp1]

[SVT-40]

(e) Records of dealers and collectors under the Act. The records prepared by licensed dealers and licensed collectors under the Act of the sale or other disposition of firearms and the corresponding record of receipt of such firearms shall be retained through December 15, 1988, after which records of transactions over 20 years of age may be discarded.

-end quote-
Note that the above includes records of acquisitions and dispositions, which is a bound book. It is not limited to 4473’s.

The above only applies to "licensed" dealers and collectors..

Once your license expires you are no longer "licensed". Definitions matter, and are key in this situation to understanding what is and isn't required.



That's why "dealers" are required to send their records to the BATFE within 30 days of their license ceasing or expiring.

"Collectors" are not required to send any of their "records" to the BATFE when they cease being a collector and turn in their license or their licenses expires.


When you are no longer "licensed" you are no longer subject to the rules related to being a licensed collector.


In other words the BATFE has no legal control of what a non licensee has to keep or do. That's why licensed DEALERS ARE required to turn in their business records within 30 days of ceasing operation.

A C&R licensee isn't in business, and as such isn't required to turn in their "records" when they cease being a licensed collector.

The 20 year requirement for retention of "records" is related to a collector or dealer who has been actively licensed for over 20 years. They are not required to keep their "records" (bound book entries) which are over 20 years old.

I hope that explains the issue.

I'll use myself as an example.

I got my first C&R license in 1985. I was continually licensed up until 2012 when I moved to Az. I was only required to keep records which were "younger" than 20 years old. I liked having the older records, so I kept the records over 20 years old, even though I wasn't legally required to keep them


I didn't notice that my license had expired in early 2012 until 2013. I was under no legal obligation to keep any of the records related to my old license. I still have the old book, but it's not a legal requirement.

I had to reapply for a new license. NOT renew my old license.

My record keeping requirements resumed with the issuance of my new license. I started a new bound book at that time because I had a new license.

Once the "records" in this new book reach 20 years old there will no longer be a legal requirement to keep them. They "roll off".

Myself I like keeping such records for my own record purposes.

[Milsurp1]

[Russian Bot]

This went from 6 to midnight really fast guys. I put it in my bound book. I just thought it was a cool purchase, and even cooler that it came from Turner's of all places honoring my 03

[SVT-40]

shall be maintained

Read the bolded part above.

Once you are no longer licensed the BATFE has no legal control of what you do.

The BATFE can't mandate under penalty of law what a non licensed individual does with any records.

All the record keeping requirements ONLY apply to licensed collectors.

Do as you please. But you are incorrect. Please feel free to contact the BATFE for further explanation.

I have spoken with them many times over the years, and confirmed the requirement I outlined above.

[Milsurp1]

So your appeal to authority is that some ATF agent told you so?

Your bolded text above proves my point. Do you have any citations for your assertion that the ATF regulations cease to be binding on a licensee whose license lapses? The plain language of the regulation does not contain any requirement of continuing licensure during the 20 year retention period. Other than argument and verbal opinions by law enforcement? If such authority exists it would be very useful for C&R licensees to know.

[SVT-40]

This went from 6 to midnight really fast guys. I put it in my bound book. I just thought it was a cool purchase, and even cooler that it came from Turner's of all places honoring my 03

No problem. It is a nice SKS.

[SVT-40]

So your appeal to authority is that some ATF agent told you so?

Your bolded text above proves my point. Do you have any citations for your assertion that the ATF regulations cease to be binding on a licensee whose license lapses? The plain language of the regulation does not contain any requirement of continuing licensure during the 20 year retention period. Other than argument and verbal opinions by law enforcement? If such authority exists it would be very useful for C&R licensees to know.

LOL... So can the BATFE require a non licensee to keep records? Or adhere to the requirements of being a licensed collector?

No, they can't.

No "citation" required.

Non licensed is non licensed.

Non licensee's aren't required to follow BATFE collector requirements, end of story.

Common sense required....

[Milsurp1]

[SVT-40]

Lol.

Milsurp1

Please review the attached link below to a new thread I started so as to not spam up this thread (any more than it has already).

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1811003

The new thread isn't my opinion or the opinion of any random BATFE agent. It's the official policy of the Licensing branch of the BATFE. I have included links "Citations" you requested.

I hope this information educates you as to this issue and once and for all time closes this question.

SVT-40