Looking for help on these rifles

[oftenindeed]

Hi all,
A friend recently asked me to take a look at some guns he inherited from his grandfather who was a WWII submariner who passed away a while ago. He was hoping for any additional info and ballpark values as he might be interested in selling (well, not the Colt).
1. Definitely not one you see everyday. This is a .38 Colt pump action rifle from 1883. He called Colt for more information but he didn't get too much. Family lore has it that this was a rifle used among the Texas Rangers. Any way to confirm that?
2. J. Stevens Crackshot .22lr. Apparently, his grandfarther won this by selling tobacco or salve? It's a take down model with a funky breach opening.
3. Sporterized full mum Type 99 Arisaka converted to 300S with also a G marking on the barrel. Is that .300 Savage? Any thoughts on the G? Any Arisaka resources out there? Also, any thoughts on that cut out wood on the wrist? Apparently the grandfather took a number of white tail with this.
4. Rusted Arisaka without mum, Type 38?. I can't tell if it's been ground or what. Any info on this one would be appreciated because I can't figure out much more than that. It's non matching and missing some magazine components but I'm not sure what if anyone has ideas. The bolt seems to work fine as does the trigger on dry firing but I think I'll suggest this one be a wall hanger to my buddy although I'll help give it a good scrubbing.
Thanks so much!

[oftenindeed]

Sporterized Arisaka

[oftenindeed]

No mum Type 38 Arisaka?

[Wheellock]

The Colt looks like a Lightning, medium frame. You can get a letter from Colt which will tell you when and to where it was shipped. They charge $100 and it takes a few months. My guess for value, assuming it functions, between $1,000 to $1,500. The heavy refinish on the stock hurts the value.

Finding provenance is probably very difficult. You would have to find some record from their archive listing serial numbers of the rifles, unless a Colt letter says they shipped it to them.

[oftenindeed]

The Colt looks like a Lightning, medium frame. You can get a letter from Colt which will tell you when and to where it was shipped. They charge $100 and it takes a few months. My guess for value, assuming it functions, between $1,000 to $1,500. The heavy refinish on the stock hurts the value.

Finding provenance is probably very difficult. You would have to find some record from their archive listing serial numbers of the rifles, unless a Colt letter says they shipped it to them.

Thanks! It looks like the Colt was made in 1885 based on the serial number. I'll keep digging to see any more information. As for the stock finish, yes it looks like somewhere along the way it was heavily revarnished. That said, the bluing and bore look in really good shape and I think it's quite pretty. Thanks again

[Rogerbutthead]

Data Sheet

Arisaka Type 99

http://www.castle-thunder.com/datasheets/99ds2010e.pdf

Arisaka Type 38

http://www.castle-thunder.com/datasheets/38ds.pdf

[pacrat]

Also, any thoughts on that cut out wood on the wrist?

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/arisaka/type-99

The "upper tang" is missing. Lower tang is part of the bottom metal. Looks intentional since the hole is plugged.

This Ebay sale pic shows it in place.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/arisaka/type-99

Likely rechambered to "30-06". The SAVAGE was a much shorter case and would require a barrel set back. Common post WWII to rechamber to 06. Simple reamer job. Japaneserifle bring backs were common, but 7.7 ammo was unobtainium. Bullets were a bit sloppy in bore but worked. Handloaders of the day either used cast or larger diameter bullets.

[pitfighter]

Love that Colt pump -
The stock can probably be nicely restored.

[oftenindeed]

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-man...risaka/type-99

The "upper tang" is missing. Lower tang is part of the bottom metal. Looks intentional since the hole is plugged.

This Ebay sale pic shows it in place.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/arisaka/type-99

Likely rechambered to "30-06". The SAVAGE was a much shorter case and would require a barrel set back. Common post WWII to rechamber to 06. Simple reamer job. Japaneserifle bring backs were common, but 7.7 ammo was unobtainium. Bullets were a bit sloppy in bore but worked. Handloaders of the day either used cast or larger diameter bullets.

awesome thanks for the insight. I'll have to take it to a range and see about the 30-06. That would make sense. I was thrown off by the barrel shank being labeled ".300 S"

[kendog4570]

Could very well be 300 Savage. Judging by the cutout in the stock, it looks like the barrel has been set back a fair amount.
30-06 was done quite a bit to the original 7.7 chambers, but it is not advisable due to the Jap chamber being a bit larger than 30-06 in the rear.
In 1950, every gunsmith alive was fairly well versed on Jap rifles. Not so much these days.
A chamber cast is the best way to determine what this rifle fires.

[pacrat]

Could very well be 300 Savage. Judging by the cutout in the stock, it looks like the barrel has been set back a fair amount.
30-06 was done quite a bit to the original 7.7 chambers, but it is not advisable due to the Jap chamber being a bit larger than 30-06 in the rear.
In 1950, every gunsmith alive was fairly well versed on Jap rifles. Not so much these days.
A chamber cast is the best way to determine what this rifle fires.

Good catch on the inletting space. I didn't notice that. Likely because the stock is so poorly inletted everywhere. Which was also typical of Jap bringbacks.


I also concur that bolded last sentence is best course.

Diff between the 7.7 and both the 300s and the 06 is only .002" at base.

Most SMLEs of same era are much sloppier from the factory. I cast the chamber of one that was .008" oversize at base. And was prone to head separation after only 1 FL reload. Advised owner to go NS only.

[kendog4570]

The chamber is a little bigger than that. And .002" run-out is a fatal flaw to a top 10% F Class shooter...!

No one ever got hurt that I am aware of, but it IS bigger. Same with Dane or Danish (caint remember which!!) 45 cal Rolling blocks "punched out" to 45-70, leaving the web and unsupported. It's been done a lot, but the conversion is sketchy.

[Bainter1212]

That little Stevens may be of interest to me.
Most of those were made as "boys" rifles and as such, were abused by kids. Most of the ones I have seen have very worn or pitted bores and various parts of the firing mechanism are broken or worn out. The metallurgy was often not of the quality necessary to last for generations and while not entirely pot metal, was easy enough to break and warp. That was how they kept the cost down.

If yours is in very good or better condition, I may be interested in it, but not for more than say $200 or so. I have a C&R license so can receive it directly. I have always wanted one but have never found one that was still in good shape.

[oftenindeed]

Thanks for noting that inletting job. Sounds like a gun smith trip is in the future. I kind of like the sporter and it's still got the mum in tact so I might try to buy it off my buddy.
As for the Stevens, the bore was not pristine from what I remember but that one is quite sentimental for my friend and that one he won't part with from my discussion with him. Sorry.

[kendog4570]

Thanks for noting that inletting job. ....

I get a few right once in a while. Hell, even a broken watch is right twice a day.


Unless that rifle is almost free, super sentimental, you just HAVE to have it, or it is the very rifle MacArthur wrenched from the hands of Tojo himself, it really aint worth messing with.
If you need a chamber cast, I can help you out.