Muzzleloader - unloading a non lead sabot?

[ProLibertate]

I've got a Barnes Expander MZ (non lead) stuck in a Green Mountain LRH barrel 1:28 twist made for sabots and conicals. This is on an old Investarm Hawken not a modern inline ML. :-(

Please help me come up with ideas on how to get this unstuck.

This is how we got here:

Prior to loading I fired two percussion caps to clear the bore. That's just what I was taught to do before the first load of the day. In hind sight, I wish I'd run a patch in there, but hind sight is 20/20.

I loaded 75 grains of Pyrodex RS (yes, I'm 100% sure!) and then the Expander MZ. It was definitely a snug fit but it wasn't as if I had to hammer it into the bore. It's fully seated on the powder at the bottom of the bore. It's probably worth mentioning that I've never tried the Expander MZ before.

A dozen caps later with various attempts to clear the nipple (it was clear) etc, I still couldn't get the power charge to fire. My assumption at this point is that I must have had a bit of oil or something at the bottom of the barrel bore. This rifle had been in storage for a few years and I foolishly didn't check.

I tried using a CO2 unloader three times and it didn't shift the sabot even slightly. Granted the fit of the unloader isn't 100% so I may have better luck if I can resolve the little bit of leak. I've used the unloader before on lead ball and it worked fine.

My ball extractor screw won't penetrate the copper(?) Expander MZ so that method out.

The breach plug has never been out of this barrel and isn't interested in coming out easily. Perhaps a long soak in a penetrating oil would get me there. I don't know.

I was contemplating trying the large size Speedout screw extractor on an extension to engage the hollow point and pull it about 1". If I can get it out of the sabot it should be relatively easy to deal with the rest.

I was also contemplating making a custom nipple like thing to give me a leak free connection to either the CO2 unloader again or just go straight to a full CO2 bottle.

What options am I forgetting about? Keep in mind that there is 75 grains of powder in there so anything with flame or heat from drilling is right out.

thanks.

[Wheellock]

I have, in the past, removed the nipple and put a little extra powder under the nipple, then a little powder in the nipple, to get a stubborn charge to light off. This is an iffy one, so use at your peril.

At home, I would probably kill the charge with water or oil or something to make it safer. I might try an air compressor with something to get a tight seal to blow it out.

Else, if you could rig a drill bit to the end of a rod and drill a pilot hole for the extractor to grab on to...(turn the drill by hand)

Last option is to hook a grease gun up to it and press it out with grease, which is very messy and will still have a bit of air in it which will blow out and spray grease everywhere.

Could be more options, that is just what comes to mind.

[Wheellock]

The screw extractor I would give good odds, I might put an o-ring near the end to protect the bore from contact and help center it (or anything else you may have handy that can do the same)

[RNE228]

Remove the nipple and trickle a little 3F or 4F powder in the hole. Replace the nipple, put a cap on and fire it. The flash hole will only accept a tiny amount of powder.

RS will work; but the finer powders work better for this. RS is a 2F equivalent so a larger grain size.

[RNE228]

I've done this, as seen from my reply.

You're right, at home is a challenge if you can't discharge a firearm. When I've done this I was at the range so it wasn't a big deal.

I have, in the past, removed the nipple and put a little extra powder under the nipple, then a little powder in the nipple, to get a stubborn charge to light off. This is an iffy one, so use at your peril.

At home, I would probably kill the charge with water or oil or something to make it safer. I might try an air compressor with something to get a tight seal to blow it out.

[sacrvrrat]

Remove the nipple and trickle a little 3F or 4F powder in the hole. Replace the nipple, put a cap on and fire it. The flash hole will only accept a tiny amount of powder.

RS will work; but the finer powders work better for this. RS is a 2F equivalent so a larger grain size.

This is what I would would try.


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[Mac Attack]

You can try blowing it out a compressor. I had a stuck bullet that the screw extraction bit would not pull out. I tried shooting it out but it only moved a couple of inches. I unscrewed the nipple, pushed the nozzle of my blower adapter and was able to blow it out the rest of the way.

[Elgatodeacero]

I have read of people using a grease gun to pump grease in behind the projectile, but never tried this. Seems messy, but a grease gun on the nipple and a lot of grease should push the load out?

[FeuerFrei]

Remove the breach plug and push the bullet on through and out. Anti seize grease the plug threads when reinstalling the plug.

[johnnycharro]

I have used my compressor to push out a stuck load. I also had a wad wedge with the ball against the side of the barrel could not get it out. I bought a 36" drill bit on Ebay and drilled it out.

[Bainter1212]

Removing the breech plug may not be an option. They are often nearly impossible to unscrew.

I have removed a projectile that I forgot to out powder under (oops!) by removing the nipple, dribbling some 3f powder into the hole, and firing it.

[ProLibertate]

I'd like to thank you all for your suggestions.

I think I've made up my mind with regard to what I'm going to try first (and second, and third).

[THBailey]

And from now on store the empty gun with the muzzle down.

[RNE228]

This video is about a dry ball in a '61 Springfield, but the process is basically the same for other muzzle loaders.. The process is same for a fouled load.

Since the OP already has powder in the barrel, the second video applies, but you only need a few grains - not like this guy actually dumps in there. Process is same though.

FYI, the '61 Springfield is fun to shoot... Been playing with rolling paper cartridges for mine.. Sure loads faster than a Hawken style.

[MARKFP]

Remove the nipple and trickle a little 3F or 4F powder in the hole. Replace the nipple, put a cap on and fire it. The flash hole will only accept a tiny amount of powder.

RS will work; but the finer powders work better for this. RS is a 2F equivalent so a larger grain size.

I've been shooting smoke poles since I was 14 and started building kits since age 16, so I've had my share of "wet" loads. I've used above method many times, sometimes needed to repeat 2 or 3 times to dry load out before firing off. As mentioned about breech plug, when you clear load do what ever you have to to get breech plug out, clean threads well and re-install with never-seize. Next time you have problem "drown" load with water and then remove plug.