Model 94 question

[blakemore]

What year did Winchester start putting a safety on the 94?

[john323]

Model 94 question

1992 the cross bolt safety appeared,2003 the top tang safety took over. johnsgunsmithing@live.com

[TRAP55]

The first year was in 1894. You had to squeeze the lever up tight to release the trigger.

[john323]

Model 94 question

Got a little ahead of my self.You are correct. John johnsgunsmithing@live.com

[TRAP55]

Interesting that even the first commercially successful Winchesters, the 1873, had the same safety mechanism, along with the half cock, to keep the hammer off of the firing pin. Very few firearms of the time had anything close to a real safety.

[Asphodel]

Trap55 is correct.

The original 1894 design incorporated two 'safety' features, the 'half cock' (altho it was much less than 'half', just enough to well clear the firing-pin) safety notch for the hammer, and the 'trigger block' which was released, freeing the trigger to release the hammer, when the operating lever was held fully up against the lower tang.

cheers

Carla

[Asphodel]

Trap55,

In all fairness, the 'safety notch' on the hammer was a feature of many firearms other than the Winchesters.

Some of the percussion 'rifled muskets' used in the era of the 'War between the States' had a safety notch for the hammer which held the hammer just far enough from the nipple that the flanged percussion cap would be retained by the hemi-spherical recess in the hammer nose, should it come loose from the nipple.

The famous 'trap-door' Springfield retained the same 'safety notch' system, as did the generality of commercial cartridge weapons.

An earlier version of 'manual safety' can be seen on some of the better quality flint and percussion sporting arms of many years earlier.

This was a sliding bar, usually dove-tailed into the lock-plate, and provided with a tab or protrusion for operation by the shooter's thumb, which slid into a matching recess in the hammer, or flint cock, positively locking the part. A tiny spring and detent system would hold the sliding safety component at either end of its travel.

cheers

Carla

[Mikeb]

" Now don't go off half-cocked"
take care
Mike

[TRAP55]

"Very few" firearms of the time had anything close to a real safety.

Carla, I was covering my......uh....all the bases.
I was trying to find an old reprint of a Civil war surgeons report about how many soldiers he had treated from "accidental" gunshot wounds. The numbers were surprising!
Mike, exactly where the expression came from!
You left the chamber under the hammer empty on your old Colt six shooter. You had to "half cock" it to load it. If you went off "half cocked", you didn't know which chamber was under the hammer.

[Asphodel]

Hi, Trap,

Well, 'fair enough' on covering your.......er......bases...... : )

I'd think you already perfectly well know all this, but for the 'newbies' here, I'll add a bit of historical or traditional trivia, if I may.

A common custom of those, particularly farm or ranch people generally, who carried a single action revolver such as the M1873 Colt or M1890 Remington, was to 'load one, skip one, load the remaining four, bring the hammer to full cock, then let the hammer all the way down easily', which would bring the hammer down on the empty chamber. (unlike the movies, the chance of a gun-fight with another human was so remote as to be, for all practical purposes, non-existant.

The harsh reality of the time was that 'varmints', ranging from rattlesnakes to mountain lions or bears, could and did kill or badly injure any human who crossed their path, and if you were alone, some distance from home or from any friend, a relatively minor injury could prove fatal....there was no 'rescue' or 'antibiotics' then.....if you couldn't defend yourself, you were 'in serious trouble'. Beef cattle, particularly range cattle, are far more dangerous to humans than is commonly believed, for that matter)

Carrying a single-action Colt with the hammer on the 'safety notch' over a live round was a terribly hazardous practise, as, should the Colt be dropped in such a way as to land on the hammer, the safety notch could be broken, and the revolver would fire......should you have fumbled it in such a way that the barrel was pointing in your direction, the penalty for your error would be immediate and severe, quite possibly fatal.

A piece of 'folklore', which may well have commonly been done by some folks, was to fold a $1, 5, or maybe even a $10 bank-note ( a $10 note was worth more, in purchasing power than a $100 bill of today), then roll it tightly until it would fit in one of the chambers of the Colt.

Not only did it remind the user to 'load one, skip one', but it was a secure 'savings bank' not subject to 'bank failure', as were many banks of a century ago, assuming one had a United States Note, not one on a private bank which may fail. (Remember, the bank notes of a century ago, which could be redeemed in 'lawful money' meaning gold or silver coin, were a larger size format than modern 'fiat money' currency, and had to be folded/rolled rather tightly to fit into a Colt chamber)

Sadly, some people of later generations never heard this bit of folklore......I got to see, first-hand, an example of this which narrowly avoided tragedy.

In conversation with a long-haul trucker, he showed me the Belgian copy of a Colt single-action, in 44 mag, which he carried under the seat of his truck. When I checked it, I found one live cartridge with the primer fully indented, but which had not fired.

He had loaded all six, then let the hammer down, very gently, until the firing pin on the hammer nose was resting on a live primer.

Any 'bump' on the hammer would have fired that round. What actually happened is that the vibration in the truck cab had the firing pin tip slowly deforming the primer, until the firing pin was fully down, but the slow deformation of the primer didn't create enough 'shock' to fire it.

It would have been rather fascinating to have had a movie camera on that trucker's face, when I explained to him just how 'lucky' he was, in that he didn't have a 44 mag bullet ricochetting around inside his cab.

The 'moral of the story' is rather obvious, actually....... : )

One of my great-grandfathers fought in the War between the States......my grandmother told me some of the stories that he told, of the horrific carnage in that war.....the field surgeons' work was a story of horrors almost beyond modern comprehension.

Doubtless, accidental shootings would have been common, considering that, on the Northern side in particular, many of the soldiers were recent immigrants from 'impoverished peasantry' tenant farm families in British or European countries, who would presumably never have even handled or fired a musket before they were enlisted.

According to the stories, it was quite common for the soldiers in encampments to drink large amounts of 'rotgut' whisky, provided by the 'black market' of the time.....even tho they risked court-martial if found drunk in camp or on the march.

Junior officers and sergeants had to 'walk a fine line' in 'turning a blind eye' to some amount of drunkenness amongst the men, not ordering so many punishments that the men would totally lose morale and desert, yet just enough to.....in theory, at least.....maintain a reasonably disciplined fighting force.

cheers

Carla