Marlin 410

[AR22]

Picked this up today at the FFL. Bought it over on another Forum last week.
What a sweet little Shotgun. Took it out and fired 8 rounds through it right away. I just could not wait to go out and try it asap.


Bore and all internals are near perfect. It does have a few small areas of light rust. Mostly on the left side of the barrel. I will clean that with a copper pad and it will look pretty good. It is a 90 year old Shotgun. So it is never going to be new again. But overall it is a very nice and cool little .410. Absolute blast to shoot.

Maybe some are not familiar with the story behind these Gems. I am no expert either. But they were made from around 1929 to 1932 and mostly given to people who bought at least 4 shares or 100.00 worth of Marlin stock. Probably around 10,000 or less made. Late production a few might have been offered to the general public. But not likely alot would have been sold in the depression Era. I believe they also took them to "Investors Dinners" and handed them out there if you bought the stock at the Dinner Party..Wish they held Dinners like those today.

They were made on the 1893 Action. They had to widen and lengthen the loading gate port to fit the .410 Shell. It was made to shoot the "new" 2 1/2 shells and 2 inch also.

Here is a pic..

[BOBGBA]

Very cool. What's the model number and how much do they go for?

[pennstater]

Very nice shotgun. Must say, have not seen one before. Excellent find.

[AR22]

I have never seen a model number ever listed anywhere for these. I was told or read somewhere that if you remove the Forearm. The barrels are marked with the same stamping as the Conventional 1893 Rifles.

As far as pricing. Not alot of them sell so hard to say. If you want one bad enough. There is one on Gun Broker right now for 2200.00. I went to a local Auction and tried to buy one a few months back. It went for 1500.00. I was not even able to get a bid in before it was out of my price Range,LOL

I consider this one a good deal at the 900.00 shipped I paid. One sold on GB the other day for 800.00 plus shipping. But had a lot of issues and was buffed years ago and re blued. They ruined that one, but someone still paid a good amount to own it. But I guess they wanted one regardless of condition or lack of collector value. It is one of those you kinda have to take what you can get, when one shows up for sale.

I am a shooter more than a collector. This will be well cared for, but shot quite often. I was told by a couple people this is the nicest one they have ever seen. Way, way nicer than the 2200.00 currently on GB. That guy is nuts in my opinion, but I am going to watch and see if someone buys it. Thanks

[BOBGBA]

Sorry, should also have asked, what is the barrel length & how is it choked?

It looks really awesome.

[AR22]

This one is 26 Inch. They did make some in 22 Inch but they are kinda hard to find a bring a premium over the 26, Guess I never looked, will have to go back and look at the one on GB and see if it a 22 Inch or not.

Went and looked and it appears to be the 26 Inch standard barrel to me, but he does not say. Looks like he lowered the price also to 1999.00.

You could also shoot slugs from these according to Marlin. I think they were Improved Cylinder. But have also read Cylinder somewhere also.

[bruss01]

Marlin still makes a .410 shotgun very similar to this.

https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1895-big-bore/model-1895-410

I like the old guns, and that one you scored is a fine looking specimen.

[AR22]

I have seen those. They would be fun too. But like you, old stuff for me also. I have no interest in a new one. Old one or none for me.

[Mike Armstrong]

I believe that the "new" .410 ctg. in the mid-1930s was the "Super-X" 3 inch brought out by Winchester in 1935.

The 2 1/2" .410 was the normal American .410 until the Super-X came out and became all the rage.

The 2" was the original .410 developed in Europe, and still sold in the UK as the "FourTen."

In the US some single shots were initially chambered for the 2" and called "12mm." Then the 2 1/2" became the standard and some of them were marked ".410/12mm" since they could shoot both ctgs.

Before the .410 in its various sizes came along, its functions were carried out here mainly by the .44-40 CF Winchester ctg. loaded with shot. Some Stevens and other single shot guns were made specially for that and are usually marked ".44 Shot." It could be fired in .44-40 rifles (lousy patterns) and the guns made for it with smoothbore barrels could also fire a roundball load usually called the ".44 GameGetter."

The recently discontinued Marlin and Winchester 94 .410 lever actions shoot only the 2 1/2" shells, but I think i saw a video of the newer Henry .410 lever action firing 3" shells.....

Can you see that I like .410s?

But they never made one to equal the original one that the OP has showed us! Slick.

[bergmen]

Tenderfoot question here: How come the .410 was never assigned a gauge number like the rest of the shotgun shell sizes?

BTW, GREAT Marlin find there, never knew they made these back then. I'm a Marlin lover here, my oldest is a model 1936 purchased in 1941.

Dan

[Mike Armstrong]

Not a tenderfoot question at all, just one of the great mysteries of cartridge nomenclature that our forebears burdened us with (my favorites are why Winchester chose to call the .38WCF the .38-40 instead of what it actually is, a .40-38....and then there's the ".35 S&W" ctg.).

The .410, by the original way of reckoning "guage," is a 67 or 68 guage. That is, 67 or 68 pure lead round balls of .410 diameter make up a pound of lead. But nobody I know of ever called it a "68 guage" or marked the barrels that way.

However, I have seen European .410 shotguns (admittedly mostly cheap ones) that were marked "36 guage"! Why?

I suppose because the next smallest "common" guage (remember we're talking 'way back in the day, and in Europe to boot) was the 32 guage, and 36 seemed by some logic the next step down in size from that! But what the "logic," or the math, was I have no idea.

I suspect that some marketing dude just thought it would sell (that is the oft-given reason for the name of the .38-40, and it makes as much sense as many things in this old world). "If they like little shotguns like a 32, maybe they'll LOVE a littler one!!!".

"It's complicated" is always the right answer in the world of people and their guns.

[bergmen]

Not a tenderfoot question at all, just one of the great mysteries of cartridge nomenclature that our forebears burdened us with (my favorites are why Winchester chose to call the .38WCF the .38-40 instead of what it actually is, a .40-38....and then there's the ".35 S&W" ctg.).

The .410, by the original way of reckoning "guage," is a 67 or 68 guage. That is, 67 or 68 pure lead round balls of .410 diameter make up a pound of lead. But nobody I know of ever called it a "68 guage" or marked the barrels that way.

However, I have seen European .410 shotguns (admittedly mostly cheap ones) that were marked "36 guage"! Why?

I suppose because the next smallest "common" guage (remember we're talking 'way back in the day, and in Europe to boot) was the 32 guage, and 36 seemed by some logic the next step down in size from that! But what the "logic," or the math, was I have no idea.

I suspect that some marketing dude just thought it would sell (that is the oft-given reason for the name of the .38-40, and it makes as much sense as many things in this old world). "If they like little shotguns like a 32, maybe they'll LOVE a littler one!!!".

"It's complicated" is always the right answer in the world of people and their guns.

Excellent, thanks! I appreciate the explanation and it makes sense. I have always been troubled by cartridge "names" that so not represent the actual definition of the cartridge. An accurate example is .357 Magnum, the correct diameter of the bullet. Many seem to be "marketing" choices.

When I first heard of the .454 Casull I wondered why in the heck would they choose a bullet diameter slightly larger than .452, the diameter of .45 Colt and .45 Auto. Then I learned that this was chosen to be a "unique" name. Frustrating and there are many examples like this.

Dan

[Mike Armstrong]

As a lifelong gunnut (and, I blush to admit, once a "marketing dude,") I wish the US would spend more time on making the products we need and less time on marketing EVERYTHING. More R&D, less expensive hoopla. Trust the consumer to find and buy the good stuff.

BTW, I daily expect one of the gun makers to announce a ".410 3 1/2" Magnumb". Just what we need, a perfect example of "more is less."

[AR22]

Good info.

Someone asked and I think I stated this could be a Imp Cylinder Bore. I measured the muzzle end and came up with right at .396. So I think it is maybe a full choke? Sound right?

Thanks for all the kind input. Like this little Shotgun alot. I have some hard to find Marlins, but this is my favorite.

I will not go into details, but after all was said and done. I only ended up with 700.00 in the Shotgun. It was kinda a fluid deal as it went. But that is what I have in it now.

[TRAP55]

Tenderfoot question here: How come the .410 was never assigned a gauge number like the rest of the shotgun shell sizes?
Dan

That's a real long and complicated story, that's mostly comprised of speculation. It involves Austrian, British, and US gun and ammo makers. I'll try and shorten it best I can. All of this was happening in about the same time period.
Austrians were already using a 36ga, about a .50cal bore that had ammo that looked like a .410 that Brits where just developing. They were drifting into England about that time, looked alike, got called the same thing. We can blame the Brits for the 36ga name. I "think" it was Kynoch that coined ".410 bore". Somewhere in the middle of that, 12mm got added, I'm not sure from who.
Meanwhile in the US, Winchester had developed a shot loading for the guns chambered in 44/40, the .44 XL Shot. A 44/40 with a wood bullet shaped shot capsule.
The 2" Kynoch .410 would chamber in the .44/40, but held more shot. For a brief period there single shot shotguns marked 44/.410 to shoot both shot loads.
Before Winchester started producing .410 shotshells, only the Kynoch was available, and their boxes said .410, and we kept that name.
There is still debate on who developed it first, the US or Britain. Kynoch claims as early as 1885, but.....brass head dimensions are the same as the .44/40WCF.