Fixed mag SKS capacity?

[echo1]

Hi Fellas,

With the mag capacity FUBAR that happened earlier, would you now be able to have a "more than 10" fixed mag in an SKS? Like a Duck bill mag, with the cover release pinned/welded, so the trigger group would have to be removed before the mag can be taken out. Or one of those hideous fixed 20 round star mags.

Just curious. PAX

[Spaffo]

Fixed-mag semiautos are restricted to 10 rounds, I believe.

[ojisan]

There's still some debate on this in the How CA Laws Affect Me threads, which would have been a better place for this question.
Law says: Putting a over-10 round mag in a fixed magazine gun creates an AW.
Now there are all kinds of magazine locking devices for ARs that may muddy the waters a bit but nothing is for the SKS.

Now, me being an old fart let me tell you about SKS and those star 20 rounders (or a fixed duckbill 30 rounder) since I am old enough to have played with such things back when they were legal.
They are not very practical.
As you know, you load your SKS with a 10 round stripper clip and then when you pull the stripper out the bolt goes forward and a round is chambered.
Now to load the next ten rounds, you take a second 10 round stripper clip, you pull the bolt back to push the loaded stripper into place but unfortunately the round that was in the chamber is ejected as the bolt comes back.
You get the second stripper worth of ammo into the mag, pull the clip and the bolt goes forward chambering a round again.
Next you go pick up the ejected round and look at it, realizing that your gun only has 19 in it (18 in mag, one in the chamber) and there really is no way to get that 20th round in it.

it's so much better just to stick with the ten round mags, unless you have 20 or 30 round stripper clips.

( BTW, my star 20 rounder would jam on the 13th round every time which is kinda weird.
I'm a persistent fixer but I ain't got time for that fix.)

[MajorSideburns]

There's a lawsuit about this issue going on right now. The plaintiffs are suing because they want to put their legal greater than 10 round mags into their bullet button or fixed magazine rifles. The greater than 10 round magazine is legal to possess but the way the penal code is written, it specifically says an "assault weapon" is a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine over 10 rounds capacity. If you left it in detachable configuration that would be a different story. There is also a law that bans specifically by model and name the SKS rifle with a detachable magazine. So you would have to make sure your SKS variant is not an "SKS", the same way that we have AR15 lowers which are not on the banned list by model name. So a Yugo SKS is technically a Zastava 59/66 and could be ok with detachable magazines which are greater than 10 rounds if legally owned, where a Norinco SKS can't, because the side of the receiver says "SKS". Obviously you would need to keep in line with the other CA "assault weapon" rules like no flash hider, so view the Calguns flowchart to make sure you comply with all banned features with a semi-auto centerfire rifle.

30515.
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:

(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

[emcon5]

I don't believe it really changed anything regarding the fixed magazine rifles, because that was a separate statute than the one that was briefly overturned. The bit that was legal, albeit temporarily, was on importing or making mags that held more than 10 rounds.

As I understand it, It was still legal to own a >10 round magazines provided you owned it prior to the law banning importation or sale was in place (grandfathered). You could only use them in a RAW or any non California Assault Weapon with a detachable magazine (such as a featureless rifle, and most standard size semi-auto pistols made in the last 30 years).

[echo1]

Thanks all,

Other than AK mag fed Kali banned SKSs, the stock 10 round fixed are the best and most reliable. Was curious. PAX

[seanbo]

IIRC the sks detachable magazine ban was on Russian rifles.

[93chipper]

I hear that anything over the original mag is a 50/50 when it comes to working right

[echo1]

IIRC the sks detachable magazine ban was on Russian rifles.

It was the Chinese "D & M" models. I don't believe the Russians had any detachable mag SKSs. PAX

I hear that anything over the original mag is a 50/50 when it comes to working right

I think that's accurate. Some Tapco and early DC mags have been known to function consistently.

I was considering a fixed, "pinned to 10" 20 round duckbill Tapco unit, for a Bull Pup project, just for esthetics. But if it doesn't feed stripper clips, then it's a no go. PAX

[CWL]

I also played around with one of those 20-rd fixed mags back before CA decided to regulate. Utterly unreliable junk. Cheap soft stamped metal couldn't be trusted to hold its shape let alone reliably feed ammunition.

One of the few gun parts I actually threw into the recycler (because I'm such a good Californian!)

[Quiet]

IIRC the sks detachable magazine ban was on Russian rifles.

It was the Chinese "D & M" models. I don't believe the Russians had any detachable mag SKSs.

The CA AWB of 1989 banned "SKS with detachable magazines".

It was targeting all SKS rifles that were modified to use detachable "duckbill" magazines.

In late-1991, a distributor asked CA DOJ if their "SKS Sporter" rifle (Norinco SKS-M) met the definition of a "SKS with detachable magazines".

The CA AG ruled that it did not (because they used AK magazines & not the SKS "duckbill" detachable magazines) and CA DOJ allowed "SKS Sporter" rifles (Made in China MC-5D, Norinco SKS-D, and Norinco SKS-M) to be imported to CA and sold from 1992-1997.

In 1997, the CA AG said he made a mistake and the "SKS Sporter" rifles were banned as "SKS with detachable magazines".

Because people were now being charged with possession of assault weapons for something that CA DOJ had previously said was legal, the CA legislature passed emergency legislation that granted owners of the affected firearms protection from prosecution and required said owners to sell those firearms to CA DOJ or take them out-of-state for storage/transfer before 01-01-2000.

The "SKS Sporter" debacle is one of the reasons why a firearm that gets through the transfer process (DROS + waiting period) is still not an indicator that the firearm is 100% CA legal and, during an audit, CA DOJ can (years) later declare the firearm was not CA legal.


During the legislative process for creating CA AWB of 2000, the SKS with fixed 20 round magazine was used as an example of a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine capacity of greater than 10 rounds.

[bohoki]

every sks can hold 11 in the mag via just shoving it in hard or via lowering the mag bottom after hitting the release and holding it there

[echo1]

The CA AWB of 1989 banned "SKS with detachable magazines".
It was targeting all SKS rifles that were modified to use detachable "duckbill" magazines.
In late-1991, a distributor asked CA DOJ if their "SKS Sporter" rifle (Norinco SKS-M) met the definition of a "SKS with detachable magazines".
The CA AG ruled that it did not (because they used AK magazines & not the SKS "duckbill" detachable magazines) and CA DOJ allowed "SKS Sporter" rifles (Made in China MC-5D, Norinco SKS-D, and Norinco SKS-M) to be imported to CA and sold from 1992-1997.
In 1997, the CA AG said he made a mistake and the "SKS Sporter" rifles were banned as "SKS with detachable magazines".
Because people were now being charged with possession of assault weapons for something that CA DOJ had previously said was legal, the CA legislature passed emergency legislation that granted owners of the affected firearms protection from prosecution and required said owners to sell those firearms to CA DOJ or take them out-of-state for storage/transfer before 01-01-2000.
The "SKS Sporter" debacle is one of the reasons why a firearm that gets through the transfer process (DROS + waiting period) is still not an indicator that the firearm is 100% CA legal and, during an audit, CA DOJ can (years) later declare the firearm was not CA legal.
During the legislative process for creating CA AWB of 2000, the SKS with fixed 20 round magazine was used as an example of a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine capacity of greater than 10 rounds.

Nice detail work. I did not know the specifics of the "SKS mag" ban.
Thanks Q, PAX

[Pardini]

The CA AWB of 1989 banned "SKS with detachable magazines".

It was targeting all SKS rifles that were modified to use detachable "duckbill" magazines.

In late-1991, a distributor asked CA DOJ if their "SKS Sporter" rifle (Norinco SKS-M) met the definition of a "SKS with detachable magazines".

The CA AG ruled that it did not (because they used AK magazines & not the SKS "duckbill" detachable magazines) and CA DOJ allowed "SKS Sporter" rifles (Made in China MC-5D, Norinco SKS-D, and Norinco SKS-M) to be imported to CA and sold from 1992-1997.

In 1997, the CA AG said he made a mistake and the "SKS Sporter" rifles were banned as "SKS with detachable magazines".

Because people were now being charged with possession of assault weapons for something that CA DOJ had previously said was legal, the CA legislature passed emergency legislation that granted owners of the affected firearms protection from prosecution and required said owners to sell those firearms to CA DOJ or take them out-of-state for storage/transfer before 01-01-2000.

The "SKS Sporter" debacle is one of the reasons why a firearm that gets through the transfer process (DROS + waiting period) is still not an indicator that the firearm is 100% CA legal and, during an audit, CA DOJ can (years) later declare the firearm was not CA legal.


During the legislative process for creating CA AWB of 2000, the SKS with fixed 20 round magazine was used as an example of a semi-auto centerfire rifle with a fixed magazine capacity of greater than 10 rounds.

I don't think that is technically correct.

DOJ did reverse their ruling, making guns that were declared legal, now illegal and therefore needed to be registered as AW's. AG Dan Lungren created a Grace Period for owners of the affected SKS's to continue to register their rifles after the mandated registration period closed. He did so because the reverse by DOJ came very late in the registration period.

Handgun Control filed a law suit against Lungren saying his Grace Period was illegal. In the mean time Lungren was out as AG and Bill Lockyer was in. Lockyer dropped the opposition to Handgun Controls lawsuit and demanded that the guns registered during Lungrens Grace Period be turned in for a buyback of $230. I think it was just shy of 200 guns.

[Quiet]

I don't think that is technically correct.

DOJ did reverse their ruling, making guns that were declared legal, now illegal and therefore needed to be registered as AW's. AG Dan Lungren created a Grace Period for owners of the affected SKS's to continue to register their rifles after the mandated registration period closed. He did so because the reverse by DOJ came very late in the registration period.

Handgun Control filed a law suit against Lungren saying his Grace Period was illegal. In the mean time Lungren was out as AG and Bill Lockyer was in. Lockyer dropped the opposition to Handgun Controls lawsuit and demanded that the guns registered during Lungrens Grace Period be turned in for a buyback of $230. I think it was just shy of 200 guns.

Per CA legislature, there was no registration allowed for the "SKS Sporter" rifles.
^Only exemption was for Dangerous Weapons Permit holders to have it registered in their assault weapons inventory. [PC 30720(a)(3)]

The only legal options were:
1. Turn into CA DOJ for compensation ("buy back"). [PC 30720(a)(1)]
2. Turn into CA LE agency for destruction. [PC 30720(a)(2)]
3. Render it permanently inoperable (destroy it), sell it to a CA FFL dealer with an assault weapons permit, because a Dangerous Weapons Permit holder, take it out-of-state for storage or transfer. [PC 30720(a)(3)]


AFAIK...
During the assault weapons registration window for the AWB of 2000, some people attempted to register SKS rifles as assault weapons (so they could use detachable magazines) and those were intitially placed on hold for clarification, then later rejected (because that type of assault weapon had to be registered during the AWB of 1989 time frame). But, some submissions had their registration approved as SKS with 11+ round fixed magazine.




Penal Code 30720
(a) Any person, firm, company, or corporation that is in possession of an SKS rifle shall do one of the following on or before January 1, 2000:
(1) Relinquish the SKS rifle to the Department of Justice pursuant to subdivision (h) of former Section 12281.
(2) Relinquish the SKS rifle to a law enforcement agency pursuant to former Section 12288, as added by Section 3 of Chapter 19 of the Statutes of 1989.
(3) Dispose of the SKS rifle as permitted by former Section 12285, as it read in Section 20 of Chapter 23 of the Statutes of 1994.
(b) Any person who has obtained title to an SKS rifle by bequest or intestate succession shall be required to comply with paragraph (1) or (2) of subdivision (a) unless that person otherwise complies with paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of former Section 12285, as it read in Section 20 of Chapter 23 of the Statutes of 1994, or as subsequently amended.
(c) Any SKS rifle relinquished to the department pursuant to this section shall be in a manner prescribed by the department.