WEGC New Ammo Restrictions Meeting

[shda5582]

Just got this in an e-mail blast, but I don't appear to have a login to their forums any more to read the whole thing. Here's the e-mail:

SPECIAL-EMERGENCY MEETING- June 26, 2019 - 6:30pm @ clubhouse
MEETING SPECIFICS:
Marked URGENT
ALL MEMBERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO ATTEND or send comments
DATE: June 26, 2019, WEDNESDAY EVENING
TIME; 6:30 P.M.

LOCATION: CLUBHOUSE 1324 E. Fourth Street Ontario, CA 91764
The Board of Directors has called a special meeting with an URGENT STATUS assigned to it.
The following proposal is (set to be voted on) and discussed at the meeting:

W.E.G.C. POLICY AMENDMENT/CHANGE - AMMO RESTRICTION

DATE 06/11/2019 (introduced)
NEW Addition to existing ammunition policy and range rules.
To be implemented immediately upon adoption.

PERSON(S) AFFECTED BY THIS-

All Members

SPONSOR(S) OF THIS-
sponsored by Terry Ahlgren (introduced by Stephen Frederick

WHAT will policy change affect?
Ammunition ban at WEGC on the use of any projectile (bullet) containing steel
detectable by a magnet

SPECIFICS AND GOALS- Complete ban on this type of ammunition.

WHERE AREAS AFFECTED?
All WEGC property.

WHEN DATE(S) AFFECTIVE-
Immediately Implemented upon board approval.

WHY? PURPOSE / JUSTIFICATION-

Any ammunition with steel in the projectile is unsafe because of the fire danger. It will
also make WEGC compliant with National Forest Service rules on ammunition.

HOW? STEPS NEEDED TO COMPLETE AND MAINTAIN-
The board would need to approve policy and make it part of the range rules and
P&P. Also, some type of enforcement and punishment needs to be established for offenders.

WEGC Board of Directors

This is the same BS that we fought and beat years ago, thanks to Ronin2 (and I suspect that he's behind this again) so I'm confident that we can win this time as well too. If you're a member, show up or write comments against this, because it's really going to cut into our shoots if this goes through. We had more of a fire chance the last time this was up, and we still won, and I'm sure that we'll win this one too.

[bubbapug1]

You might "win" and than lose when the range burns down and is closed.

I'm sure the current president wouldn't even let this reach the agenda unless he felt it was a real threat to the club via an inadvertent fire.

That said all my AK and 50 bmg ammo is steel and it would really suck to have to buy compliant Ammo. I'm not sure anything at the main range could burn unless there's a ricochet.

['ol shooter]

If you read the letter as I did when I got it in a club email, it may be more about the Forest Service rather than a club member this time.
Since we bump right up against FS land and have club access via the FS road, it behooves us to play by their recommendations.
After all the wildfire devastation of the last few years I think they might be a little over cautious, but we will probably have to live with it.
I don't shoot green tip at the range anyway, so for me it's really not an issue, but I understand others dissatisfaction with their choice of ammo being banned.

[81turbota]

It’ll hurt the Calguns C&R shoot which is held on the main range.

I see the basis behind it but recommendations are not requirements. As a limited member I have no dog in the fight but hope those with voting power to reassert prior rulings. I’ll await the outcome.

[shda5582]

If you read the letter as I did when I got it in a club email, it may be more about the Forest Service rather than a club member this time.
Since we bump right up against FS land and have club access via the FS road, it behooves us to play by their recommendations.
After all the wildfire devastation of the last few years I think they might be a little over cautious, but we will probably have to live with it.
I don't shoot green tip at the range anyway, so for me it's really not an issue, but I understand others dissatisfaction with their choice of ammo being banned.

It's basically the same thing as what happened last time via said club member. They have the same arguments that we defeated back then also, but we NEED to fight this again. The chance of a ricochet/spark starting a fire there are insanely slim, to say nothing of the precautions that they take at the range. In short, it takes exact laboratory conditions, literally, for that to happen.

[shda5582]

You might "win" and than lose when the range burns down and is closed.

I'm sure the current president wouldn't even let this reach the agenda unless he felt it was a real threat to the club via an inadvertent fire.

That said all my AK and 50 bmg ammo is steel and it would really suck to have to buy compliant Ammo. I'm not sure anything at the main range could burn unless there's a ricochet.

You have a better chance of hitting the lotto than you do having the range burn down.

[kel-tec-innovations]

Totally against it. Shooting area are clear of dried plants or any plants. Every precaution taken already.

If bi-metal steel ammo was so dangerous the paper target board and paper targets should be on fire often.

I have shot in the dark before on steel target in the desert, it gives off a nice sparkly splatter that doesn't reach the grown, nor is it hot enough or able to retain enough heat to reach plants 5 feet away to light up.


My thoughts are whenever ranges ban steel anything:

Ranges hate steel case because there's no money to be made vs. brass casing. Ranges with their own steel target thinks bi-metals rounds wear their targets out faster.
Another step to make shooting sports more expensive and make AK's C&R guns impossible or extremely cost prohibited to shoot.

WEGC how many years has it been? How many millions of rounds fired? vs. fire. Not sure the sudden need and urgency to BAN BAN BAN

[bellwilliam]

how do I "write comments"? does it mean sending in a snail mail?

so how does one shoot a K31 now?

[OCEquestrian]

how do I "write comments"? does it mean sending in a snail mail?

so how does one shoot a K31 now?

Are you a WEGC member ? Just register as a Member on the club's website. It may take a day or two to verify you and approve you. Once approved you can comment both of the members forum where it is being discussed and in the Sergeant at arms forum and the sergeant at arms will bring your points forward to the board at the next meeting or the emergency meeting.

You might "win" and than lose when the range burns down and is closed.

I'm sure the current president wouldn't even let this reach the agenda unless he felt it was a real threat to the club via an inadvertent fire.

That said all my AK and 50 bmg ammo is steel and it would really suck to have to buy compliant Ammo. I'm not sure anything at the main range could burn unless there's a ricochet.

I own a weapon that shoots BMG .50 as well. I found out- the hard way at burro canyon that .50 BMG M33 ball ammo is steel cored. Happily I don't shoot that gun often and have no plans to drag it out on the near future.

I understand both sides of the argument and given the Hostility to firearms in California and the genuine concerns over wildfires and the trend to hold people accountable for them, I can see why the issue needs to be discussed and looked out again. It will be an interesting meeting I plan to attend.

[bellwilliam]

Are you a WEGC member ? Just register as a Member on the club's website. It may take a day or two to verify you and approve you. Once approved you can comment both of the members forum where it is being discussed and in the Sergeant at arms forum and the sergeant at arms will bring your points forward to the board at the next meeting or the emergency meeting.

thanks. I was able to log in. but I wasn't able to find the "Sergeant at arms" forum. there is a "help desk" sub-forum. but there is zero post in there regarding to this issue.

there is a short thread on this issue in "club business conversation" sub-forum. everyone is against it except for a "stephen", he is pushing it hard. I remembered that super long thread that Ronin2 was the main force behind this from 4 years ago (that was driest season then)..

[bellwilliam]

here is the thread: you can vote only (but don't think it matters, as this is a proposal to the BoD, only board can vote on it).

https://wegc.org/forum2/index.php?topic=5960.0

[OCEquestrian]

here is the thread: you can vote only (but don't think it matters, as this is a proposal to the BoD, only board can vote on it).

https://wegc.org/forum2/index.php?topic=5960.0

I think only members can see / access this.

[God Bless America]

It's basically the same thing as what happened last time via said club member. They have the same arguments that we defeated back then also, but we NEED to fight this again. The chance of a ricochet/spark starting a fire there are insanely slim, to say nothing of the precautions that they take at the range. In short, it takes exact laboratory conditions, literally, for that to happen.

I've seen it happen at the Inland Fish and Game Club.

[OCEquestrian]

I've seen it happen at the Inland Fish and Game Club.

Do you know what kind of ammo it was as it would be apropos to this thread to know ? I have seen and helped put down a fire started by a .50 BMG M33 ball round that we all thought was lead cored but turned out to be steel cored.. much to our surprise.

['ol shooter]

Green Tip 5.56 M855 is what it was about last time, and it was voted on by the entire membership.