Ruger Old Army

[big red]

Have any of these people citing the above tried to covert, shoot, and re-load these guns with any serious speed in firefight/combat conditions with the current cartridge reloading cylinders? Good luck winning a firefight. when was the last time a crime much less a murder was committed using one of these guns? sounds like "intelligent" laws once again and if california can make it any dumber they will.

[SkyHawk]

And there are center fire replicas from Italy. That reason alone doesn't make the Old Army BP in need of a DROS. In my collection I have a couple of Uberti's in both 45LC and BP... Never had to DROS the BP because of it.. However if the auction house wants it to DROS have them send it to your FFL1. Explain to your FFL1 what's going on, and when it comes in go pick it up... Modifying a Ruger BP to make it a center fire, and having to install a loading gate etc make it a little challenging...

They key word is REPLICA. If it is a replica of a pre-1899 gun, it is OK that it can be readily converted, it is still classified antique, 18 USC 921(a)(16)(B)

If it is NOT a replica of a pre-1899 gun, ie Old Army, and it is readily converted to fixed ammo, it is NOT exempt, 18 USC 921(a)(16)(C)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

ATF has a memo if you want to call them. They were pushing it hard 10+ years ago.

Again - there is a big reason all these BP guns that are easily converted are replicas of pre-1899 guns and you have to look no further than 18 USC 921(a)(16)(B) to find out why.

The Old Army is not a replica, the Old Army is therefore considered a Title 1 GCA ‘68 firearm in every state in the USA.

[condor]

They key word is REPLICA. If it is a replica of a pre-1899 gun, it is OK that it can be readily converted, it is still classified antique, 18 USC 921(a)(16)(B)

If it is NOT a replica of a pre-1899 gun, ie Old Army, and it is readily converted to fixed ammo, it is NOT exempt, 18 USC 921(a)(16)(C)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

Interesting.... I thought the original BlackHawk design was modeled after the 1858 Remington and brought out as a modern 357 center fire. Ergo the Old Army is a copy of a design. Regardless, the Old Army is being shipped door to door everyday without consequences.... The DOJ, ATF, FBI, and any other LEA acronym, have more pressing matters to deal with.

[Mustang]

Nice, it's only one of a hundred made, which I think in firearms made in commemorative issues, it is a comparatively low number of total units made in a series.

..." limited edition Ruger Old Army black powder revolver. One of only 100 manufactured and simply called the "Old Army Horse Pistol", this revolver features crossed sabers on each side of the cylinder with the motto "Duty-Honor-Country", all in gold. There is also a gold "U.S." on the top of the rear grip strap as well as "U.S." branded into the side of each grip. "

The perfect gift to to give any military, leo or U.S. Patriots.

On top of that it's probably a model of gun they might not already have in their collection already.

Thanks, sealocan. Learned on Ruger forum that, as you said, 1 of 100 made by Talo for Ruger. Got it for less than regular OA's go for in average shape.

[Paul_R]

It doesn't have to be a replica to be a non firearm. Cap and ball pistols are muzzle loaders. All of them. That auction house is full of crap.

[condor]

It doesn't have to be a replica to be a non firearm. Cap and ball pistols are muzzle loaders. All of them. That auction house is full of crap.

The Ruger Old Army is a Black Powder percussion, not a muzzle loader....

[Paul_R]

It loads from the front and can't take a cartridge. It's a muzzle loader.

[condor]

It loads from the front and can't take a cartridge. It's a muzzle loader.

Nope... you're wrong....

[eviioiive]

I must load mine wrong. I load the cylinder not from the muzzle....

[Beetle Bailey]

It's a front stuffer

[1859sharps]

They key word is REPLICA. If it is a replica of a pre-1899 gun, it is OK that it can be readily converted, it is still classified antique, 18 USC 921(a)(16)(B)

If it is NOT a replica of a pre-1899 gun, ie Old Army, and it is readily converted to fixed ammo, it is NOT exempt, 18 USC 921(a)(16)(C)

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

ATF has a memo if you want to call them. They were pushing it hard 10+ years ago.

Again - there is a big reason all these BP guns that are easily converted are replicas of pre-1899 guns and you have to look no further than 18 USC 921(a)(16)(B) to find out why.

The Old Army is not a replica, the Old Army is therefore considered a Title 1 GCA ‘68 firearm in every state in the USA.

unless you have a letter from ATF saying otherwise, the link you share doesn't support your interpretation.

The ROA doesn't have to be an exact, literal replicate of a actual model that existing pre 1898. it just has to function like one. AND be designed ground up to be blackpowder cap and ball from the factory. Even the Italians import and sell non exact replicates without FFL transfer. they just function like a pre 1898 cap and ball and thus get the exemption.

The exception is, you can't take a modern hand gun, say a Ruger BlackHawk and put a cap and all cylinder on it and call it a black power handgun and thus be exempt to FFL rules.

you also cannot put a conversion cylinder allowing you to fire modern ammunition into a ROA and continue to call that specific handgun a black powered exempt cap and ball handgun.

California might have some additional rules that are in line with what you are saying, but I am not finding anything to support your claim at the federal level...even reading the link you provide.

[smle-man]

I really like that Old Army! Wanna trade my Stainless OA for it?

[mikeyr]

its simple, it depends on who you buy a ROA from, nothing more than that.

Some require DROS, some don't. Maybe the ones that require the DROS are wrong, maybe the ones that don't are wrong, but its all about who you buy it from.

The ivory gripped gun in my avatar is my original ROA, purchased in 1975 or 6, I have owned a few others but that one will always stay in my collection.

[sakosf]

unless you have a letter from ATF saying otherwise, the link you share doesn't support your interpretation.

The ROA doesn't have to be an exact, literal replicate of a actual model that existing pre 1898. it just has to function like one. AND be designed ground up to be blackpowder cap and ball from the factory. Even the Italians import and sell non exact replicates without FFL transfer. they just function like a pre 1898 cap and ball and thus get the exemption.

The exception is, you can't take a modern hand gun, say a Ruger BlackHawk and put a cap and all cylinder on it and call it a black power handgun and thus be exempt to FFL rules.

you also cannot put a conversion cylinder allowing you to fire modern ammunition into a ROA and continue to call that specific handgun a black powered exempt cap and ball handgun.

California might have some additional rules that are in line with what you are saying, but I am not finding anything to support your claim at the federal level...even reading the link you provide.

Isn't the date stated as being "in" or before 1898 to qualify as a antique, in other words, mfg prior to Jan 1, 1899

[Nevada Hudson]

My 1858 Remington BP can be easily converted to cartridges. Just change the cylinder.