Gun ID help

[beerman]

My buddy showed me this today...Any Idea what it is? worth? Supposed to be a 38 cal.

[sealocan]

I think it maybe a Smith & Wesson possibly chambered in .38 Smith & Wesson caliber (not to be confused with 38 Special or any of the other MANY .38 caliber rounds) and referred to as the " the forth modle" ( my first guess was incorrect, I can see now by the shape of the trigger guard and trigger that ironhorse1 is most likely correct.)

Yours not only has a removed or broken trigger guard but it looks like some springs possibly the trigger return spring have been removed in might be a challenge to reassemble, if any of the parts are not broken themselves, which is a possibility considering how old it is (and is a common reason why guns become disassembled and never reassembled.)

I would go to Gun Parts Corporation and see if they have a diagram for that model compare yours and maybe the diagram might even help you reassemble it or notice some parts of yours that are broken.

Value as is I would say $50 and it's non-working non-functioning condition. But a Smith & Wesson collector might see a jewel in the rough and pay more but if you get it all together and functioning correctly those same collectors will pay a higher price. Unfortunately I don't collect old Smith & Wesson's myself so I don't know what their price range would be.
But giving it a while ballpark estimate if it was fixed up, I'd say less than 500 more than 200.

[ironhorse1]

While it looks like a 4th model the side plate or raised area is just wrong.

There appears to be no markings on the barrel either. A clone maybe with Smith stocks?

irh


Here's a link to a good photo. Check the side plate and compare.

http://www.nramuseum.com/guns/the-galleries/the-american-west-1850-to-1900/case-19-smith-wesson,-marlin,-remington-and-others/smith-wesson-38-double-action-fourth-model-revolver.aspx

[ironhorse1]

http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/smith-and-wesson-double-action-da-pocket-revolver-38-antique-pre-1898.htm

The NRA site photo won't expand so look here instead if not working.

irh

[highpower]

Without access to my library, I have no real way to identify it. I can say that it has been refinished and I believe the side plate is from another gun as the fit isn't quite right. I think it may be a second model that has been messed with, but that is mostly a WAG.

[Alan Block]

It could be Belgian or Spanish. Either way not worth much. If its a genuine S&W or Iver Johnson it might have some value.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

If it has no markings, it is a knock off. There were literally hundreds of shops across the world churning out look-alikes for at least 50 years. Because of the much looser copyright and trade mark laws back then, it was hard to go after somebody for making a gun that just looked like yours. As long as it was slightly different mechanically, you were out of luck. Which is why a great many of these handguns look nearly identical on the outside. And if they were coming out of a small shop in Belgium, or Spain? Yeah, good luck going after them at all. The real guns by the larger manufacturers all have clear markings as to who made them. They often also have proof marks showing that they had been inspected in their country of origin. If your gun has neither of these, it is most likely a hand-made copy of something from a no-name shop in Europe someplace. It is probably chambered for .38 S&W or .32 S&W. If it has broken parts, you are out of luck. Your only option in most cases is to have a gun smith make the part by hand. Consider it a piece of history, and leave it at that. It isn't worth the time or money it would take to get it working again.

-Mb

[beerman]

Thanks for all the feedback folks..I've forwarded it all back to my friend. Here's a shot of the other side...definitely a S&W. I suspect a re-finish as I don't think S&W plated the hammers & triggers. Anyways thanks again.

[ironhorse1]

How about a picture of the top of the barrel where it should be appropriately marked with patent information..

The grip logo and trade mark are a bit off and worn. Close but not perfect. Still a fake and refinished to boot.

As stated S&W has a side plate that is flush not raised with a screw not a recessed hole.

Look at the reference pictures I linked. Barrel should be marked on the side with caliber info as well.

An expert will be along later. Either I'm right or wrong but it is always interesting to examine these revolvers and their clones.

Also look for Spanish or Belgian proof marks, if present, under the barrel or any discrete area.

irh

Here's the biggest obvious difference. http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/images...pre-1898-1.jpg

[Mr. Beretta]

This one's easy.

It refinished.

Call S&W customer service at 1-800-331-0852. Provide the serial #, which is stamped on the butt of gun. They will tell you the model # and approx. year.

Plus check your PM.

Thanks.

[smithrjd]

Ask the same question with pictures on smith-wessonforum in the antique section, you learn what there is to know about the pistol.