C&R SOP

[Hinnerk]

[Nevada Hudson]

They sure make it difficult on purpose.

[Hinnerk]

They sure make it difficult on purpose.

Oh, but they call it "common sense"!

[Skirmisher]

Nice post, thanks. Ought to be a sticky.

[zhaolander]

Thanks this is very helpful.

Is anyone aware of a Bay Area dealer that is willing to do the exemptions for C&R handgun PPT?

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

[rdfact]

How about purchase of C&R long guns from out of state? I recall Trickster did a solid post outlining the various penal codes. It seemed clear that it was perfectly legal to receive a C&R long gun from out of state directly to your home if you had both a C&R and a COE. But lately that has been debated and the CA DOJ will tell an out of state dealer that this is not legal.

[userformerlyknownasfitty]

Thanks this is very helpful.

Is anyone aware of a Bay Area dealer that is willing to do the exemptions for C&R handgun PPT?

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

I'm not certain because I haven't tried it, but I remember reading that there is a bug in the system that will not let the dealer bypass the 10 day wait for ffl03/COE holders. Can anyone confirm this?

[condor]

Nice work... I just printed it out and tossed it in with the rest of my C&R purchase info that goes with me when I have to do a DROS.... Thanks!!

[sbo80]

How about purchase of C&R long guns from out of state? I recall Trickster did a solid post outlining the various penal codes. It seemed clear that it was perfectly legal to receive a C&R long gun from out of state directly to your home if you had both a C&R and a COE. But lately that has been debated and the CA DOJ will tell an out of state dealer that this is not legal.

This is how DOJ describes the two forms you would use to register a C&R you get without DROS. Neither of them consider a mailed firearm. Not saying this is what the law says, but it's pretty clear what DOJ thinks the law says.
Collector In-State Acquisition of Curio or Relic Long Gun Report ($19.00 processing fee)
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 27966, persons residing in California who possess a Collector of Curios and Relics Federal Firearms License and a valid Certificate of Eligibility may lawfully acquire curio or relic long guns from non-licensees without completing the transfer through a licensed firearms dealer. The person obtaining or taking possession of the firearms is required to submit a Collector In-State Acquisition of Curio or Relic Long Gun Report within thirty (30) days of taking possession of the long gun.
Curio or Relic Firearm Report ($19.00 processing fee)
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 27565, persons residing in California who possess a Collector of Curios and Relics Federal Firearms License may acquire a curio and relic firearm while outside of California and subsequently transport the firearm into California. The person is required to submit a Curio or Relic Firearm Report within five (5) days of transporting the firearm into California.

[condor]

Curio or Relic Firearm Report ($19.00 processing fee)
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 27565, persons residing in California who possess a Collector of Curios and Relics Federal Firearms License may acquire a curio and relic firearm while outside of California and subsequently transport the firearm into California. The person is required to submit a Curio or Relic Firearm Report within five (5) days of transporting the firearm into California.

[SVT-40]

Curio or Relic Firearm Report ($19.00 processing fee)
Pursuant to California Penal Code section 27565, persons residing in California who possess a Collector of Curios and Relics Federal Firearms License may acquire a curio and relic firearm while outside of California and subsequently transport the firearm into California. The person is required to submit a Curio or Relic Firearm Report within five (5) days of transporting the firearm into California.

Barring the actual buying of a gun on a trip or vacation and hand carrying it back to CA, this is where the big debate happens. Where does the actual ownership takes place of an out of state C&R 'acquisition'? And the definition of the word 'Transport'. One camp interprets the 'transport' as acquiring the C&R when it's paid for, and the other when actual possession takes place. When you physically have it in your hands. The other, the arrival of the gun at it's shipped destination. The term 'transport' could mean physically transporting the firearm, or consigning it to a shipper to transport the firearm to you, which could be construed as importing...

The language in the above is very clear, and has nothing to do with "ownership".

As A Federally licensed C&R collector you "acquire" a C&R firearm when it becomes yours in any way shape or form AND it is in your possession. So if you "acquire" a C&R firearm AND personally transport it back to California you are exempt from the DROS requirements.

If you pay for a C&R firearm, and do not personally transport it back to Ca. You are subject to the DROS requirements as you have not yet acquired it.

A Collector only "acquires" any C&R firearm when it comes into and is actually in the collectors possession.

So if you are out of state, and see a firearm in a shop, you handle it, and pay for it, but do not personally take possession at the shop and transport it back to CA, you have not yet actually "acquired" it, as it is not in your possession, and is being transported by a common carrier, or the USPS.

Because you have not "acquired" it you are not required to log it into your book until it arrives at your licensed premises.

If you are out of state and see a firearm in a shop, you handle it and pay for it and DO take personal possession of it, you have "acquired" it, both in the Federal and Ca. definition.

Ca. law does not allow you to mail it back to Ca.

Ca. law requires you to transport it back yourself in order to avoid the DROS.

Federal law requires you to enter it into your bound book, as you have "acquired" it.

Remember Ca. codes are different than Federal requirements. The Federal codes DO require Licensees to obey ALL laws of the state where the collector is licensed and adhere to them even if they are more stringent that what is allowed under federal law.

[condor]

And that's where the debate starts.... Thanks for proving my point...

[SVT-40]

And that's where the debate starts.... Thanks for proving my point...

What debate...

The law is very clear.

Simply because it's a bit difficult for some to understand does not mean it's debatable or unclear.

[Hinnerk]

What debate...

The law is very clear.

Simply because it's a bit difficult for some to understand does not mean it's debatable or unclear.

Until someone with FFL03 and COE is actually charged with a misdemeanor and convicted under the relevant PC section (27585) for having a C&R long gun directly shipped from out of state to the address on their license, I think that the question can fairly be debated. I agree with you, however, in that I think a judge would find that the law bars such action.

The frustrating thing is that the bill that created this situation (AB 1609) originally contained language to exempt FFL03s with COE from the requirement to have such an out of state purchase be transacted through an FFL01. At some point and with no explanation that wording was struck from the bill before it became law even though the final version of the bill stated that it was not the intent of the Legislature to affect "Persons who import or bring firearms into California under existing regulatory statutes who comply with those statutes."

[SVT-40]

Yup. Ca. sucks...