Tracking a Carbine like a Garand?

[Dr30Carbine]

I was told today (and had geard something similar before) that one could track their Garand down to the unit, and soldier it was issued to. If that can be done with Garands, can it be done with Carbines, and if so, how, or where?

Very curious about this, would love more info.

[marksmandowntown]

For the most part that is not true. For a handful of them it is true. CMP will do a records check for like $20 but all you will get is the name and year the CMP first sold it.

[marksmandowntown]

Check the C&R forum for the threads discussing Bavarian Carbines. It's not what you asked about but there is still some cool info.

[TKM]

Yeah, no.

[xxINKxx]

For $20 i'll tell you it was owned by Gen George S Patton himself!

[kendog4570]

I was told today (and had geard something similar before) that one could track their Garand down to the unit, and soldier it was issued to. If that can be done with Garands, can it be done with Carbines, and if so, how, or where?

Very curious about this, would love more info.

Good luck on that one. Either weapon.
As a side note, there are more assembled-from-surplus/scrapped parts USGI carbines from the late 50's/early 60's in circulation than there are actual surplussed whole guns from uncle sam. Not to mention the commercial carbines from the same period, of which there are millions.

[Milsurp Collector]

From Bruce Canfield, author of

[Orlando]

No it cannot be done for either rifle, those records were not kept

[beerman]

For the most part that is not true. For a handful of them it is true. CMP will do a records check for like $20 but all you will get is the name and year the CMP first sold it.

Back in the 80s I contacted the CMP (then DCM) and asked if a Garand (that I purchased from a gun show) had originally come from them. They sent me a letter back confirming it had and the shipping date & destination city. If memory serves me, I think they even told me the original buyers name. They didn't charge back then. Probably because they were govt employees back then.

[DennisCA]

For $20 i'll tell you it was owned by Gen George S Patton himself!

Isn't the latest business venture by "The Expertise"?

[onelonehorseman]

From Bruce Canfield, author of

Quote:
More thoughts on “tracing the history” of a Gun.

I get a lot of inquiries from guys wanting to find out the “history” of a particular U.S. military weapon and the question seems to be asked with more and more frequency. As we have mentioned here before, in the vast majority of cases, that simply isn’t possible. Even on those rare occasions when some information can be garnered, it is normally just a “snapshot” of the weapon at a given point. For example, factory letters can often be obtained for some U.S. military firearms manufactured under government contract. The most common of these are the various Colt handguns such as the Model 1911, Model 1909 and Model 1917 as well as some of the Smith & Wesson revolvers made for the government.

Even in such cases, however, the information only reveals the date and destination of the shipment from the factory. While interesting, there is no subsequent information revealed regarding the gun in question. Likewise, for those fortunate enough to obtain a “hit” on their weapon in the Springfield Research Service database are only going to find out a snippet of information in the gun’s “chain of custody” while in military service. As mentioned before, this information can range from the mundane and relatively unimportant (i.e., the rifle was turned into Springfield Armory for refurbishing on a particular date) to extremely important and noteworthy (i.e., a M1896 Krag carbine was issued to a member of the 1st Volunteer Cavalry (“Rough Riders”) or a M1873 “Trapdoor Carbine” or Colt SAA was issued to member of the 7th Cavalry and used in the Little Big Horn battle. Most of the SRS “hits” are in the former category and, while interesting, hardly constitute a complete history of the gun in question. Since only an estimated 3% or less (probably a lot less) of U.S. military firearms are reflected in the SRS database, the odds of discovering even this modicum of information are pretty low.

Some have wondered why records regarding a particular weapon’s subsequent disposition after it left the factory weren’t maintained and available today. They point out, correctly, that there was strict accountability for the weapons issued to a particular unit, thus those records should still be around.

The primary reason why this is not the case is because such accountability only existed while the weapons were in the possession of the unit to which they were issued. During peacetime, such records were maintained until the weapons were transferred to another entity or turned in for some other reason. After the guns were “off the books” of the unit, the records were destroyed as there would have been no reason to keep them. Pity they weren’t thinking of us collectors today!

When a unit deployed overseas, all bets were off regarding accountability of weapons as it would have been impossible to account for guns lost, destroyed, abandoned (yes, it happened), “carried home” (yes, that also happened on some occasions), captured, traded for another weapon, etc. Theoretically, the weapons were all supposed to have been accounted for when a unit was withdrawn from a theater of operations but the realities of the situation usually meant that any gun that was missing was simply shown as “lost in action.” Even these incomplete records were destroyed when the weapons were turned in upon the unit’s return stateside. To the average supply clerk or weapon’s room sergeant, a rifle was simply something else to account for along with blankets, overcoats and socks and not the treasured and valuable collectible as we view it today.

In a perfect world, we would be able to have complete documentation on a particular weapon consisting of when it was made, every soldier to whom it was issued and when, where and how it was used. Unfortunately, this isn’t the case.






^ excellent post reply and information!

You win post of the day!

[I Swan]

Isn't the latest business venture by "The Expertise"?

I think you mean the Expertish, Jason Veraldi of the Mosin Nagant 91-30 group buy Ponzi scheme.

If someone believes you can trace your exact issue history of your M1 Garand you probably also believe the CGNer that claims the government gave his dad official permission to buy and take home his M1 Garand after WW2.

[Orlando]

CMP will check to see if it ever passed through their hands. If it was sold before 1996 their records are incomplete and may not show results. The search is $25 if they find anything or not. They will not tell you the name of the previous owner or issue a certificate

[musketjon]

If someone believes you can trace your exact issue history of your M1 Garand you probably also believe the CGNer that claims the government gave his dad official permission to buy and take home his M1 Garand after WW2.

Now THIS is funny--truthful, but funny.
Jon

[johnthomas]

For $20 i'll tell you it was owned by Gen George S Patton himself!

Since you mentioned Patton, did you know, he once hunted Pancho Villa, ended up killing Villa's second in command?