black powder handguns

[locomike]

I recently read an article about black powder revolvers, I think they were talking about a Ruger product, use for self defense etc.
It got me thinking. These type with the changeable cylinders and fired with a cap, not the old muzzle loader smooth bore types.
Are those also able to be purchased in person or through the mail with out going through an FFL01? Or are they under all the same restrictions as any handgun?
thanks for help everyone

[Paul_R]

Cap and ball revolvers are not considered firearms since they don't fire cartridge ammo. And technically, they're muzzleloaders. You can buy them online and have them shipped right to your door, no FFL required. Ruger made one they called the "Old Army".

[locomike]

thats what i thought. thanks. what about concealed carry? would they be considered firearms for concealed carry purposes?

[musketjon]

If it's loaded, capped and carried on your person, for all intents and purposes it it will be considered a CW.
Jon

[Alan Block]

It is just as illegal to carry without a permit as any cartridge gun. It might be difficult to get it on a permit too.

[I Swan]

Some FFL's insist on DROSing Ruger Old Armies.

[Paul_R]

Some FFL's insist on DROSing Ruger Old Armies.

No reason to buy one from an FFL in the first place. There are plenty online ready and willing to ship to your door.

[locomike]

so if i carried it concealed with out the caps in it. it is legal?

[CSACANNONEER]

First of all, many frontloaders have rifled barrels so, I really suggest that the OP learns a lot more about BP firearms in general. They are all fun to shoot. Personally, I would not recommend them for a CCW gun nor would I recommend carrying one that is charged but not capped. If caught, you'll end up spending tens of thousands of dollars to prove that you were following the law. It's simply not worth it. locked, unloaded concealed carry of a modern gun which uses metallic cartridges is a far better option for those without a CA LTC.

[Sousuke]

so if i carried it concealed with out the caps in it. it is legal?

As far as I am aware the whole capped vs uncapped only defines whether its loaded or not. Do not conceal carry a blackpowder gun without a valid CCW in the state.

(Also capping is quite slow...even if you have a snail capper or other gadget).

[Paul_R]

As far as I am aware the whole capped vs uncapped only defines whether its loaded or not. Do not conceal carry a blackpowder gun without a valid CCW in the state.

(Also capping is quite slow...even if you have a snail capper or other gadget).

It has to be capped and fully assembled to be considered a loaded firearm. Easier and a lot faster to have a cylinder capped and ready but carried separately assuming you have a Ruger or Remington. Not that I advocate any such thing. Cannoneer is right about having some expensive explaining to do if you're ever caught.

[Cuda440]

It has to be capped and fully assembled to be considered a loaded firearm. Easier and a lot faster to have a cylinder capped and ready but carried separately assuming you have a Ruger or Remington. Not that I advocate any such thing. Cannoneer is right about having some expensive explaining to do if you're ever caught.

If you were going to carry the cylinder separately, you might as well carry a conversion cylinder for 45lc

[Sousuke]

It has to be capped and fully assembled to be considered a loaded firearm. Easier and a lot faster to have a cylinder capped and ready but carried separately assuming you have a Ruger or Remington. Not that I advocate any such thing. Cannoneer is right about having some expensive explaining to do if you're ever caught.

Seriously. If that cylinder were to fall out of a pocket and hit on the cap side, you would probably end up with lead in your head. (though looking at my remington pattern 1858 the cylinder does do a pretty good job of shielding the cap)

[Quiet]

I recently read an article about black powder revolvers, I think they were talking about a Ruger product, use for self defense etc.
It got me thinking. These type with the changeable cylinders and fired with a cap, not the old muzzle loader smooth bore types.
Are those also able to be purchased in person or through the mail with out going through an FFL01? Or are they under all the same restrictions as any handgun?
thanks for help everyone

Under CA laws...

Blackpowder firearms are classified as "antique firearms". [PC 16170]

"Antique firearms" are only exempt from some CA firearm laws. [PC 16520(d)]


"Antique firearms" [PC 16170(b)] are only exempt from the following CA firearm laws:
01. Infreqent transfers. [PC 16520(d)(1)]
02. CA DROS. [PC 16520(d)(2)]
03. Operation of law transfers. [PC 16520(d)(3)]
04. "used firearm" transfer laws. [PC 16520(d)(4)]
05. Unloaded handgun open carry laws. [PC 16520(d)(5)]
06. Unloaded long gun open carry laws. [PC 16520(d)(6)]
07. Requirement to be a CA FFL dealer in order to transfer it. [PC 16520(d)(7)]
08. CA FFL dealer requirements when transferring firearms. [PC 16520(d)(8)]
09. Required minimum age to transfer. [PC 16520(d)(9)]
10. Required identifying marks/engravings on handguns. [PC 16520(d)(10)]
11. 10 day waiting period. [PC 16520(d)(11)]
12. PPT requirement to transfer through CA FFL dealer. [PC 16520(d)(12)]
13. Registration requirement for importing into CA and requirement to use CA FFL dealer to legally import into CA. [PC 16520(d)(13)]
14. Requirement to be licensed as a manufacturer in order to legally make in CA. [PC 16520(d)(14)]
15. Residential firearm storage requirements. [PC 16520(d)(15)]
16. "home built firearm" marking/engraving and registration requirements. [PC 16520(d)(16)]

In addition to the above, specific types of "antique firearms" [PC 16170(c)] are exempt from these additional CA firearm laws: [PC 17700]
01. Camouflaging firearm container laws.
02. Cane gun laws.
03. Unrecognizable firearm laws.
04. Short Barrel Rifle laws.
05. Short Barrel Shotgun laws.
06. Unconventional pistol laws.
07. Undetectable firearm laws.
08. Wallet gun laws.
09. Zip gun laws.

[Quiet]

so if i carried it concealed with out the caps in it. it is legal?

Nope.

They (antique firearms) are illegal to conceal carry, loaded or unloaded. [PC 25400(a)]

If they (antique firearms) are loaded [PC 16840(b)(2)], then it's illegal to carry/possess in public. [PC 25850(a)]

If they (antique firearms) are unloaded, then it's legal to open carry it in non-prohibited areas of public. [PC 16520(d)(5)]
^Prohibited areas = GFSZ, Gov buildings, etc.

Furthermore...
Since "antique firearms" are not registered (no requirements for it, no requirements for markings) and since "antique firearms" are considered firearms in regards to CA conceal carry laws, then it is a felony to conceal carry an "antique firearm" (unregistered handgun). [PC 25400(c)(6)]
Since it's felony conceal carry, conceal carrying the "antique firearm" loaded with powder charge/ball and uncapped, will cause it to be considered loaded [PC 16840(a)]. Which would bring another two felony charges (armed criminal action and loaded firearm in public). [PC 25800(b) & 25850(c)(6)]



Penal Code 16840Penal Code 25800
(a) Every person who carries a loaded firearm with the intent to commit a felony is guilty of armed criminal action.
(b) Armed criminal action is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison.