Colt 1917 trigger binding

[toro1]

I have a Colt 1917 revolver with a trigger that has stopped resetting I took it apart and to my untrained eye it looked like the hand had significant wear. I ordered a new hand, but when I tried to install it the entire trigger mechanism would not move at all. I am now guessing the wear I thought I saw on the hand was actually filing to fit the hand.

Does the new hand require extensive fitting to work properly? If so I may have a different issue causing the binding and could use some help in identifying the areas to check.

TIA.

[Milsurp Collector]

Try taking it apart, cleaning, and lubricating it before replacing parts. It is 100 years old after all. Calguns member MosinVirus has a YouTube video of how to disassemble a Colt 1917

[toro1]

Thanks Milsurp Collector. I didn't realize Mosinvirus was a calgunner but did use his video to do a disassemble and clean and that is when the sticking started. The original problem was it could no longer be cocked so I took everything apart, cleaned it and then the cocking problem was solved, but now the trigger will not reset. It looked like interference in the hand area so I examined it and it appeared to be heavily worn and that is why I ordered the new part. Now I am not sure if it was really worn or just fitted.

[toro1]

Some pics of the old and new hand-

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[TRAP55]

Toro, before you start trying to fit that new hand, give the gun a good cleaning, and re-assemble.
Uncocked, point the gun straight up, observe the cylinder gap between the cyl and forcing cone. Now, single action cock the gun as you watch the gap. If it moves enough that you can see the gap get smaller, it's not the hand that needs work. You have "end shake" problems. Let me know what you find, and we'll go from there.
Another more common problem, is the ejector rod assembly unthreading, check that it's tight.
Two more pics will help me to help you.
One of the cyl ejector star, and one of the cyl stop recesses.
Dammit, you just had to pick a Colt to get fixed over the interwebs.

[Milsurp Collector]

Thanks Milsurp Collector. I didn't realize Mosinvirus was a calgunner but did use his video to do a disassemble and clean and that is when the sticking started. The original problem was it could no longer be cocked so I took everything apart, cleaned it and then the cocking problem was solved, but now the trigger will not reset. It looked like interference in the hand area so I examined it and it appeared to be heavily worn and that is why I ordered the new part. Now I am not sure if it was really worn or just fitted.

If the trigger reset problem didn't appear until after you took it apart and reassembled it, that would suggest a problem with the reassembly. The hand is in the same condition as it was when the trigger was resetting. It didn't suddenly wear. Maybe the rebound lever wasn't seated correctly.

When I got my Colt Official Police recently http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...4&postcount=22 I took it apart to inspect, clean, and lubricate the internals. And those pictures were taken after I reassembled it, notice no dings or messed up screws. It was working perfectly before I took it apart but the first time I reassembled the revolver it didn't work right. It was hard to cock, trigger didn't reset, cylinder didn't turn all the way. It worked fine if I didn't tighten the side plate screws all the way, but if I tightened them something started binding up. I thought I had messed it up. I took it apart again and put it back together, making sure everything was seated properly. The tolerances are very tight so everything has to be just right. I put it back together carefully and all of the problems went away. It was good as new.

Try assembling it again, making sure everything is fully seated where it should be.

[toro1]

Milsurp and Trap, Thanks for the input. I'll take it apart and clean it one more time and see if I can find anything out of place.

Trap, I'll also get the pics you ask for. I did check the spacing during the cocking and it did not change, and the star wheel is tight.

Milsurp,
I agree with the binding trigger after reassembly seems to point to an error on my part, but also wondered if whatever caused it to lock up could have bent something and was now causing the binding.

I'll get some pics up in a little while and report back after another disassembly/clean.

[SkyHawk]

These parts were absolutley hand fitted, and any replacement parts will also need to be hand fitted.

[toro1]

These parts were absolutley hand fitted, and any replacement parts will also need to be hand fitted.

Thanks for confirming this. If I need to fit a new hand, it may be time to seek professional help.

I took it apart and cleaned it again last night and the binding seems to have gone away. The only thing I found this time through was the transfer bar was not rotating easily. I cleaned up the post and inner circle of the bar and it was much better. I am going to try and get to the range later today and see if everything is good while firing ~50 rds down range.

[toro1]

Trap, Some pics of the star wheel and cylinder stop/recesses in case you see anything that looks odd. All recesses look similar.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[TRAP55]

Good news on the pics, what I was looking for, isn't there.
What SkyHawk said about hand fitted parts relates to my comment that it just had to be a Colt. Most times you change a part, and the whole damned action has to be tweaked to make it work. If they weren't abused, it's not often a part needs to be replaced.

[dfletcher]

Thanks for confirming this. If I need to fit a new hand, it may be time to seek professional help.

I took it apart and cleaned it again last night and the binding seems to have gone away. The only thing I found this time through was the transfer bar was not rotating easily. I cleaned up the post and inner circle of the bar and it was much better. I am going to try and get to the range later today and see if everything is good while firing ~50 rds down range.

As suggested the rebound lever likely wasn't properly set onto the inside boss of the hand during reassembly. You can see the boss in photo #2 of your previous post. After seating the hand into the trigger, or while doing it, you need to lift the rebound lever just a bit so the angled end of it rests on top of the boss.

Comparing the fitted hand with the new one you can see a fair amount of work must be done not only for the cylinder timing but for proper trigger return. If your hand gets a little lazy sometimes peening the 2nd stage will make it work fine.

[toro1]

As suggested the rebound lever likely wasn't properly set onto the inside boss of the hand during reassembly. You can see the boss in photo #2 of your previous post. After seating the hand into the trigger, or while doing it, you need to lift the rebound lever just a bit so the angled end of it rests on top of the boss.

Comparing the fitted hand with the new one you can see a fair amount of work must be done not only for the cylinder timing but for proper trigger return. If your hand gets a little lazy sometimes peening the 2nd stage will make it work fine.

While I had made the mistake of not seating the rebound lever the first time through, after I was sure it was seated, I still had the trigger binding so I believe my problem was elsewhere. The good news is I took it to the range today and it ran flawlessly in single and double action. Something was clearly not reassembled correctly and I fixed it with last nights cleaning and reassembly.

For future reference can you explain the "2nd stage" of the hand? I am not sure what I would need to peen.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

[MosinVirus]

Wow, that is one of the earlier videos where I said "ok" a lot. Had to work on that.

Glad you got your problem resolved, OP.

[TRAP55]

For future reference can you explain the "2nd stage" of the hand? I am not sure what I would need to peen.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Top of the hand is the first stage, the top of the flat in the cut below it, is the second. They take turns pushing the cylinder around, like two guys taking turns pushing a car into the garage.
First guy pushes it down the driveway, the second pushes it into the garage. If the second guy gets lazy and doesn't push it in far enough to clear the door, you smack him with a hammer.
It's called "stretching" the hand, by peening, or in effect, cold forging the end of the second stage of the hand. By moving enough material up towards the flat, it gives the cylinder that fraction of a kick in rotation for the bolt to lock into the cylinder notch.