1896 krag carbine! Lots of pics looking for info

[Cody805]

This is my 1896 Springfield 30-40Krag carbine. Im looking for more info guys, I don't want to undercut myself when If choose to sell it one day. I'm kinda up in arms on keeping it because i know I will never find another one in such great condition. The Gent I got it from said his grandfather was a forest ranger and this was issued to him. That pretty much all the info I have. The serial number is very very low in the 56xxx range. It has the "sergeants peep" rear sight that folds away also. I was told by a historian/lgs that this rifle was rebarreled by the NRA or CMP? and that's how the 03 front sight ended up on there. This is not a bubba sporter all the hardware and correct furniture,barrel bands, and barrel is correct length. So what I'm asking is for any and all info I can gather on her! Thanks in advance guys!

https://goo.gl/photos/xdvJP5H8JYozU6RV6

If the pictures don't show up please let me know so I can fix the link

[Cody805]

Someone please tell me if the picture link is working. This is my first time adding pictures on a post

[tnlrat37]

Pics worked for me, nice Krag my grandpa got one about 10 years ago. They have a pretty cool history and was used by the military for awhile.

[Cody805]

Pics worked for me, nice Krag my grandpa got one about 10 years ago. They have a pretty cool history and was used by the military for awhile.

Correct they were the rifle that was issued prior to the 1903 Springfield. The Krag full size rifles and carbines were used in the Spanish American war

[highpower]

Nice Krag, but unfortunately it is most likely a cut down rifle. The front sight is off of a 1903 Springfield and the rear sight is from a 1902 Krag rifle.

Look on the left side and there should be a sling bar like this:


1896 Krag carbines were never issued with sling swivels like you have on that rifle. Also, as I look at the pictures I believe I see where the front of the stock has had a piece of wood used to fill the hole where the stock lightening cut was filled in.

While it is not as valuable as a "real" carbine, the family history is priceless. If it were mine I would keep it forever.

[Cody805]

Nice Krag, but unfortunately it is most likely a cut down rifle. The front sight is off of a 1903 Springfield and the rear sight is from a 1902 Krag rifle.

Look on the left side and there should be a sling bar like this:


1896 Krag carbines were never issued with sling swivels like you have on that rifle. Also, as I look at the pictures I believe I see where the front of the stock has had a piece of wood used to fill the hole where the stock lightening cut was filled in.

While it is not as valuable as a "real" carbine, the family history is priceless. If it were mine I would keep it forever.

There is no wood that has been filled on the lightning cut, wood is solid all the way through. As Krag history forum tells some of these rifles were rebarreled by the NRA and cmp. If they were that would explain the sights being changed. If it was cut down bubba crap the barrel would be tapered which is not the case. Also some carbines did not have the saddle ring, this is a 1896 not a 1898
Thak you for the input though what would you price this one at?

[highpower]

I don't know who you were talking to, but neither the CMP nor the NRA did any work on Krag's. There was no such thing as the CMP until 1996 when the law was passed creating it, and the NRA did no work whatsoever on any military rifles. There were some Krag rifles that were cut down in the early twenties for sales to NRA members by Springfield Armory due to there no longer being any more serviceable carbines in government inventories. There are no remaining armory records pertaining to these cut down rifles, so unless you have definitive proof like a copy of the original sales receipt, there is no way to prove that one was done by the government armory or a local gunsmith.

There is no difference in the barrel taper between carbines and rifles, carbine barrels were simply cut from the same blanks as rifle barrels, but the front sight was a different height to compensate for the difference in diameter.

ALL 1896 carbines had the sling bar.

If there is no filler wood on your stock, it is most likely a 1899 carbine stock. The difference in stocks is that the 1896 and 1898 carbine stocks were shorter between the receiver and front band and were cut for the sling bar. The 1899 stocks were sold for many years by Springfield Armory to NRA members and many found their way onto cut down rifles.

The front band on your gun is from a '99 carbine but original carbines didn't have sling swivels and even on the Model 1899 Philippine Constabulary carbine (which yours is clearly not), they used the same front barrel band and swivels as the rifles. the swivel on your gun is clearly a commercial unit.

1896 carbines had a flat handguard with a front band that had a hump with a sight channel in it that was manufactured as part of the front band, this was to protect the rear sight as the gun was inserted into a scabbard. This style of stock,handguard and front band remained the same until 1899 when they changed the stock to the longer style so they could use the same handguard as the rifles.

Along with the changes to the handguard and front band, in 1896 the sights were changed. Over the period of service use of the Krag rifles and carbines the sights were changed many times. All 1892/96/98/99/1901 and 1902 carbine sights have a "C" on the left side to differentiate them from rifle sights as the range graduations are different.

This is a picture of a 1898 carbine that has had the rear sight changed to the 1902 style. Note the humps on the front band and that the stock is shorter between the receiver and the band.


I'm sorry if I upset you by calling your carbine a cut down rifle, but it is what it is. Unless you can produce some factory records showing that your gun was manufactured as a carbine, I will stand by my assessment. But even if the receiver proves to be originally from a carbine, with a cut down rifle barrel, replacement stock and sights, it is still not going to be worth anywhere near what a unmodified carbine would be worth. IMO it is a cut down rifle and has a value of around $500-600 if the barrel is in good shape.

[Cody805]

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2010/10/11/us-krag-jorgensen-the-foreign-rifle/

[Cody805]

That explains the NRA conversions
Its confusing
And thank you so much for taking the time to type all that info out. I appreciate it!

[Cody805]

And no you didn't offend me haha sorry if I came off that way. I was three drink into a confusing internet search for unreliable info on this stupid rifle. Seriously this is the most confusing, data overload that conflicts, weird firearm I have ever attempted to research. Pretty flusterating to say the least.

[MasterChief]

Here is a link to a few images of a Krag I looked at a few years ago. Don't really know what it was but has a few vague similarities to Cody805's.

http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/detailfs?userid={2664F7BA-C8E1-4EFD-8056-DC5A351B615D}&ndx=0&slideshow=0&AlbumId={7049E45B-A569-4998-94FF-A2F0D9AA3FFF}&GroupId=&screenheight=617]Mystery Krag

PS: Born and raised in SLO County myself.

[highpower]

And no you didn't offend me haha sorry if I came off that way. I was three drink into a confusing internet search for unreliable info on this stupid rifle. Seriously this is the most confusing, data overload that conflicts, weird firearm I have ever attempted to research. Pretty flusterating to say the least.

No problem. If no one ever takes the time to teach, how will anyone learn? The thing is with Krags, as with so many other old military firearms, the official records are either long lost, or were never very clear in the first place.

Krags in particular are confusing because there were so many that were cut down into carbines using arsenal components that it has become hard to pick out the real ones vs conversions. With the price of genuine carbines nearing two grand, it is certainly important to know what you are buying before you give up your hard earned money.

[Cody805]

Here is a link to a few images of a Krag I looked at a few years ago. Don't really know what it was but has a few vague similarities to Cody805's.

http://www.fototime.com/ftweb/bin/ft.dll/detailfs?userid={2664F7BA-C8E1-4EFD-8056-DC5A351B615D}&ndx=0&slideshow=0&AlbumId={7049E45B-A569-4998-94FF-A2F0D9AA3FFF}&GroupId=&screenheight=617]Mystery Krag

PS: Born and raised in SLO County myself.

Where in SLO county are from? Always nice to meet a fellow 805er!

[MasterChief]

Born in San Luis Obispo at French Hospital when it was on Marsh Street. Lived in Arroyo Grande for a bit and then moved to Avila Beach when the hot dog stands were still over the sand and went to the two-room school up on the hill. Later lived in Shell Beach, graduated from Arroyo Grande Union High School. All a long time ago, my friend. And you?

[highpower]

Born in San Luis Obispo at French Hospital when it was on Marsh Street. Lived in Arroyo Grande for a bit and then moved to Avila Beach when the hot dog stands were still over the sand and went to the two-room school up on the hill. Later lived in Shell Beach, graduated from Arroyo Grande Union High School. All a long time ago, my friend. And you?

What a coincidence, l'm from SLO Co. too. Grew up in the five cities and graduated from AGHS in '69 (go Eagles). I last lived out on Old Oak Park Road behind Arroyo Grande before I left the PRC.