First Time Newbie

[Sevonic]

Hello everyone! After finally going out shooting with some friends, I've decided that I want my own gun, but not a modern firearm, I want an old classic. A military surplus rifle like the K31, Mosin-Nagant, etc.

As someone completely new to this field, what is everything I need to get started on buying a C&R eligible firearm? Any and all help is appreciated! And I equally appreciate any who replies who took the time to reply to this thread and help a new guy like me

[SVT-40]

Buy quality... Educate yourself before you buy. Starting with a Mosin Nagant 91-30 is a good place to start. Get a all matching rifle with a good bore. Keep it stock and don't be a bubba!!!

Set aside some cash each month , and when you find a nice example buy it. No need to rush into any purchase.

Join Gunboards forum. and lurk there. You can learn a ton by just reading posts.

And above all else have fun!!

[Sevonic]

Buy quality... Educate yourself before you buy. Starting with a Mosin Nagant 91-30 is a good place to start. Get a all matching rifle with a good bore. Keep it stock and don't be a bubba!!!

Set aside some cash each month , and when you find a nice example buy it. No need to rush into any purchase.

Join Gunboards forum. and lurk there. You can learn a ton by just reading posts.

And above all else have fun!!

Thanks for your input! I appreciate your reply, but the thing I was more curious about was documentation, what would I need specifically as far as legal documentation if I wanted to buy from someone on say here for instance?

[SoCal Bob]

Welcome to Calguns. Unless you have your 03FFL and a CA COE, you will have to to do the purchase as a PPT, or from an FFL's stock. Either way you would need to DROS it. Spend lots of time reading the C&R section and don't forget to check out the photo section.

[Sevonic]

Welcome to Calguns. Unless you have your 03FFL and a CA COE, you will have to to do the purchase as a PPT, unless you buy one from an FFL's stock.

Thanks for the welcome! So if I want to purchase a C&R gun from a private party, there isn't any type of documentation that I have to show that private party? And if so, what do I need to show that private party?

[AlienHobo]

As someone completely new to this field, what is everything I need to get started on buying a C&R eligible firearm?

To buy a C&R firearm, you need the same things you need to buy a non-C&R firearm:
1) Firearms Safety Certificate. Take the test at your local gun store: $25.00
2) 2 forms of ID: Driver's License and something that shows you are a California resident, for example a utility bill.
3) A clean record, ability to pass a background check and be a legal resident.
4) Some money. The amount depends on what you want to buy. Don't forget to budget for ammo. In fact, you will eventually spend more on ammo than the firearm.
5) Patience during the 10-day wait.

Depending on what you want to start with and where you live, you can usually pick up a C&R rifle from your local gun store, from a CalGuns.Net member, or from an on-line gun store.

As SVT-40 mentioned, a MN 91/30 is a good place to start. It's inexpensive, easily found, makes a lot of noise and fun to shoot.

Welcome to the addiction.

Thanks for the welcome! So if I want to purchase a C&R gun from a private party, there isn't any type of documentation that I have to show that private party? And if so, what do I need to show that private party?

As mentioned, if you purchase from a private party, you still need to run it through a FFL (gun store), unless you have a 03FFL + CoE. You need what I have mentioned above.

[81turbota]

Thanks for your input! I appreciate your reply, but the thing I was more curious about was documentation, what would I need specifically as far as legal documentation if I wanted to buy from someone on say here for instance?

Without an ATF issued C&R 03 FFL and a California DOJ issued COE (certificate of eligibility), buying a C&R gun within CA is the same as buying any other gun. You will have to go through an 01 FFL with all appropriate paperwork.

Of course with C&R FFL and COE, you can buy and receive C&R long guns directly. C&R pistols still must go through an 01 FFL while here in CA. Antiques, with a receiver made prior to 1899 (as in dated Dec 31, 1898 or earlier) may be purchased directly without the FFL.

Reference CA penal code 27966 and see if all statutes are met prior to making a purchase outside of normal CA means.

I know it sounds like a lot, but it's easy to get a grasp of. Especially for us collectors with sizeable collections. You'll get used to it

Welcome to the club!

[Enfield47]

Thanks for your input! I appreciate your reply, but the thing I was more curious about was documentation, what would I need specifically as far as legal documentation if I wanted to buy from someone on say here for instance?

If you buy a gun you must go through an FFL now due to changes in the law. You can always apply for your 03FFL, but you'll also need a COE from the state to buy a gun without going through an 01FFL.

I would suggest starting with a Mosin Nagant or an Enfield. Both are easy to get ammo for and are relatively inexpensive, depending on the type you get. Like SVT40 said, buy the best gun you can afford and you'll not regret your purchase. Be warned, once you get your first C&R gun, they tend to multiply quickly.

[Sevonic]

Thanks everyone for all your replies! I feel a lot less lost and in the dark than I did before

[Munky]

I would go with K31, Finnish Mosin or a Swedish Mauser.

[Milsurp Collector]

Are you more interested in having old guns to shoot, to collect, or both?

Most people say both, but lean more toward shooting or more toward collecting. You should think about which way you lean. Your "lean" might shift later but decide which way you lean now. It is important to have a clear idea of what your goals are or else you will waste money buying things randomly.

If you lean more toward shooting you have to consider not only the cost and availability of the firearms, but also the cost and availability of their ammo. For example, British, Japanese, and Italian firearms can be obtained for modest prices, but their ammo can be scarce and/or expensive. One way to get around that is to handload your own ammunition, but then you have decide if you want to get into that. Handloading isn't hard and it can be a rewarding hobby itself but it does cost time and money.

If you lean more toward shooting than collecting then US and Soviet/Russian arms can be a good choice. US arms are popular with Americans for obvious reasons so the prices can be higher, but ammo is available - it can even be bought at Walmart - and affordable, and there is good support with parts and advice from other owners. The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/ is a good place to become familiar with, although the golden age of CMP sales is coming to an end. You missed the golden age when the CMP was selling many M1 Garands and M1 Carbines with your choice of manufacturer a few years ago.

Soviet/Russian arms are still reasonably priced, although prices are higher than they used to be. I remember going to Big 5 just a few years ago and buying three 91/30 Mosin Nagants for $89 each. I saw several for sale at Cabela's a few months ago so they are still available, but now they are $250. Still affordable, and the ammo is available and affordable.

If you lean toward shooting then you will soon want more accuracy than you can get from the more common milsurp rifles. The countries that produced the most accurate military rifles overall were Switzerland, Sweden, and Finland, so you might want to look at a Swiss K31, a Swedish Mauser, or a Finnish M39. There is some excellent Swiss surplus ammo still available, 6.5 Swedish isn't hard to find, and the M39 uses the same available and affordable ammo as the Soviet Mosin Nagants.

If you lean more toward collecting, then the ammo issue isn't as much a factor. If you lean toward collecting, your collection should have a theme so it isn't just a random collection of things. Many people start with "major battle rifles of World War II". Some people focus just on arms from one country, like the US or Britain or Japan or Germany or Finland. Some people focus on Mausers, which were used by many countries, especially those in South America. Some people focus on Smith & Wesson revolvers or M1911s or Lugers. Whatever it is, see what it is that interests you and try to focus on that.

Finally, the most important advice if you are going to be more of a collector than a shooter is buy more books than guns. Many people, especially younger people, have been spoiled by the Internet, quite frankly, and expect all of their answers to come over the Internet quickly and with little or no effort on their part, and for free. They aren't interested in buying books and more books and studying them to gain knowledge, or joining collector societies like the Garand Collectors Association and reading their magazines to increase their knowledge. No, some of those guys don't want to do anything more than get on the Internet, start a thread called "School me on XYZ", kick back, put their feet up, crack open a beer, and then wait to be spoon fed information, like a Roman emperor being fed grapes by eager and compliant slave girls. You aren't that guy, and shouldn't want to become that guy. There are a lot of people who are more than willing to help if you have done your homework but need help with a specific problem or question. But at least try to learn and figure things out on your own first. It's more fun and satisfying that way, and eventually you can become the helper and the one answering questions, instead of the one needing help.

[DennisCA]

Buy quality... Educate yourself before you buy. Starting with a Mosin Nagant 91-30 is a good place to start. Get a all matching rifle with a good bore. Keep it stock and don't be a bubba!!!

Set aside some cash each month , and when you find a nice example buy it. No need to rush into any purchase.

Join Gunboards forum. and lurk there. You can learn a ton by just reading posts.

And above all else have fun!!

Don't forget the Ammo; buy it cheap(as cheap as you can) stack it deep.
7.62X54r.net is good for all things mosin-related.
Also - apply for your C&R and COE as soon as possible, you'll be glad you did!
BTW - your bank account is going to hate you, good luck-welcome to the club and calguns!

[CGZ]

Get a C&R and COE and buy soon, prices are only going up from what I've been seeing. The K31 was less than $400 a couple years ago and now it's harder to find them at that price range if you want to get one without having to look around. Same with the Mosin Nagant, just a few years ago they were around $150, now they are over $200. The CMP is running out of M1 Garrands at the lower price points, and unless those ones they say are in South Korea come in any time soon, they will only go up in price too.

[AlienHobo]

The OP sounds like he just wants to purchase one rifle. Of course, we all know what that leads to... , but for now he is interested in just getting one as a shooter (or so it seems). For that, he doesn't need a 03FFL or CoE or to go through all the paperwork to get something from The CMP.

[Sevonic]

The OP sounds like he just wants to purchase one rifle. Of course, we all know what that leads to... , but for now he is interested in just getting one as a shooter (or so it seems). For that, he doesn't need a 03FFL or CoE or to go through all the paperwork to get something from The CMP.

Yes, you are right! I'm initially interested in getting started. Preferably, I'd like to find a K31, but I also would not mind in the slightest getting a Mosin 91/30 as well! And yes... I sense that this is the start of a very expensive (albeit fun!) hobby!