Rebarreling a 91/30?

[dagger10k]

So I bought a 91/30 at big 5. Ok deal, everything being in good working condition, except that the rifle is very inaccurate. I suspected it was the barrel, and took it to Maraviov Gunsmithing and he told me the barrel was shot out, no good anymore. It was my first time buying an old gun, so I didn't really know what to look for, and it was so dirty at the store I couldn't see anyway. (So now I know)

Anyway, I bought a lot of ammo for it, and really don't want to go to the trouble of buying a whole new rifle. I see that one can get a new barrel here:

http://www.buymilsurp.com/barrel-very-good-bore-m9130-mosin-nagant-rifle-p-89.html

That's 35 for the barrel, 12ish for shipping, and ???? for gunsmithing fees to get it installed properly.

Does anyone think this is a good idea?

[MrKyle]

I think you might be better off waiting for the 91/30s to go on sale at Big 5 and pick up a better one. This time, however, thoroughly inspect the bore.

[hybridatsun350]

If you're looking for an accurate rifle, look for something else. Mosin's are fun guns, but they've never been known for their accuracy. Pick up a K31 if you want a clean, accurate, surplus rifle.

[EBR Works]

An M44 will shoot the same ammo and generally be more accurate. At least that is my experience. All three of my M44s are much more accurate than my 91/30s.

[dagger10k]

Well, I already bought a bunch of ammo online, and I can't return that, so I have some monetary investment in this rifle (or another MN).

I got the mosin nagant because I wanted a cheap plinker, more or less. I don't need super accuracy, but I would like it to be a bit better than 10" groups at 50 yards. I can't hit anything with it as is. I don't think there'd be a cheaper way to go than to get a new barrel for this one, and getting a new barrel is less of a pain (and cheaper, I hope, than buying a new gun).

So is rebarreling it not practical? Would it not help bring those groups down to say, 1"? Is there a reason I would want to not do it?

Thanks for the feedback.

[Army GI]

10" groups at 50 yards?

Have you tried having someone else shoot it? I'm not saying you're a bad shot, but mosins are notoriously hard to shoot. Try shooting it from a rifle rest.

eta:

btw, it's not worth it to have a mosin rebarreled. For the price you'd pay for a new barrel and to have it installed, you could buy 3-5 mosins.

[dagger10k]

Well, 10 is an estimate. It's hard to say for sure, and it might be less (or more), but it's hard to say for sure, since I haven't shot it for groups yet. I'm not great with iron sights, but I'm pretty sure I'm not that bad. I can try having someone else shoot it next time I take it to the range, but I doubt they will do too much better.

Tax and dros included, I paid 131 for my Mosin, and I don't think I could get one for much cheaper.

The new barrel is 35, plus 12 shipping for a total of 47 plus gunsmith fees.
I think I could handle changing the sights, but probably not changing the reciever over.

Do you think a gunsmith would be likely to charge more than 84 dollars to rebarrel it?


If not, it seems it would be cost-effective for me. I will call and ask how much Maraviov would charge tomorrow.

[packnrat]

As for the question about changing barrels?

is it even possable to this to old rifles? not so much as can one get replacment tubes...but can they even be removed,
as in does time kinda weld the barral to the recever???
.

[Fate]

There's no guarantee the barrel you get from Mark Kubes is going to be any better. They're not "new."

Things that make Mosins inaccurate in this order:

1. Loose action bolts. Make sure the bolts connecting your action to the stock are tight. The one in front of the trigger should be ultra tight. The tang bolt should be snug, but not overcranked.
2. Poor bedding in the stock. If there is any forward/back play of the action in the stock, you need to shim your recoil lug. Metal should NOT move in the wood.
3. Stock is warped/poorly cut and pressing on barrel. Test for this after the action bolts are tightened. Remove the handguard and slip a dollar bill under the barrel in a U shape. You should be able to slide this all the way back to the recoil lug by the chamber. If you hit a "snag" you can look at relieving the wood in the barrel groove of the stock.
4. Muzzle crown is damaged. Look for big dings in the muzzle. If it's never been counterbored, consider doing one with a round top nut.
5. Barrel is shot out or sewer pipe (lands/grooves totally rounded/worn or so badly corroded from not cleaning that it's a hopeless cause). Note this is down as #5, not #1. Serious cleaning, including creating an electric bore cleaner can work miracles. That "shot out bore" might just be caked with layer upon layer of fouling that might come out.

You've got a lot to look at before even thinking about rebarreling it. Honestly, if it's a refurbished Mosin (Big 5, dark black bluing, sloppy shellac), the likelihood of it actually being "shot out" is almost nil. These were refurbed back to "as new" by the Ukranians and put in storage for WWIII, ready for issue to the front.

Most gunsmiths know jack about Mosins.

[dagger10k]

Well, I've tightened up the bolts as recommended.

There is some play in the wood when the bolts are loosened. I have shimmed it behind the recoil lug, and it is nice and tight now.

The barrel is pretty much freefloating except at the very end, past the second barrel band. I can slide a dollar bill under that section too if it's not resting there, but it seizes up if it is resting on something. I was going to try to see if I could get better groups offhand than from the bench. I did sand it a bit, but I don't want to remove much material.

I have cleaned the barrel pretty thoroughly. The lands look shiny now, though it's hard to say how sharp they are. The grooves look dark and corroded.

It has been counterbored, and the edges of the crown look very round. I cannot see any bumps from the rifling.

Since Maraviov said that it is pitted and shot out, I'm inclined to believe him, though. He looked at it for a few minutes before saying that, and I think if it was just fouling he'd have noticed.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I think I will go to the range and see how it shoots again tommorow, maybe do some groups at 25 yards. If it is still awful, I will look into changing the barrel. If nothing else, it will be an interesting project.

Edit: You don't think the barrels listed as very good will be any better?

[Mark One]

10" groups at 50 yards... Dont take this as a insult but that is most likely the shooters fault, not the rifle. I have a couple Mosin Nagants with just horrid sewer pipe bores, but they can still hit paper at 100 yrds.

Dont spend the money on rebarreling a Mosin Nagant. Just spend the $100 for a completely new rifle and inspect the bore. Look for sharp grooves, a shinny bore, and a clean crown. Bring a cleaning rod with you and ask to give the bore a quick pass to get the Cosmoline out for a better view. (Big5 usually does not let you do that but try anyways)

[gunboat]

I believe a competent gunsmith would charge at least at least 1 to 2 hours labor - $50 per hour? Why install a used barrel that may be as bad as the one you have? Buy a new barrel or another rifle and sell or part yours out -- I have one for sale :-) Try some reloads, maybe lead, with slightly oversize bullets - say .314 or .315 --- my ha-penny

[dagger10k]

Well I hope Fate's suggestions help it shoot better.

Btw, if anyone is in the area, I will most likely be at the Yolo Sportsman's Association tomorrow around 1. If anyone is there, you can try shooting it.

[Spiggy]

There's no guarantee the barrel you get from Mark Kubes is going to be any better. They're not "new."

Things that make Mosins inaccurate in this order:

1. Loose action bolts. Make sure the bolts connecting your action to the stock are tight. The one in front of the trigger should be ultra tight. The tang bolt should be snug, but not overcranked.
2. Poor bedding in the stock. If there is any forward/back play of the action in the stock, you need to shim your recoil lug. Metal should NOT move in the wood.
3. Stock is warped/poorly cut and pressing on barrel. Test for this after the action bolts are tightened. Remove the handguard and slip a dollar bill under the barrel in a U shape. You should be able to slide this all the way back to the recoil lug by the chamber. If you hit a "snag" you can look at relieving the wood in the barrel groove of the stock.
4. Muzzle crown is damaged. Look for big dings in the muzzle. If it's never been counterbored, consider doing one with a round top nut.
5. Barrel is shot out or sewer pipe (lands/grooves totally rounded/worn or so badly corroded from not cleaning that it's a hopeless cause). Note this is down as #5, not #1. Serious cleaning, including creating an electric bore cleaner can work miracles. That "shot out bore" might just be caked with layer upon layer of fouling that might come out.

You've got a lot to look at before even thinking about rebarreling it. Honestly, if it's a refurbished Mosin (Big 5, dark black bluing, sloppy shellac), the likelihood of it actually being "shot out" is almost nil. These were refurbed back to "as new" by the Ukranians and put in storage for WWIII, ready for issue to the front.

Most gunsmiths know jack about Mosins.

Other things to consider while dealing with mosin accuracy problems
1. you're flinching
-damn thing is violent shooting, you might flinch

2. needs fixed bayonet
-some guns are set with the bayonet fixed

3. sights are off
-some guns have been dropped or dinked, sights might be off

4. ammo could be better
-they dig this ammo out of farmer's backyards in the former combloc nations

5. trigger sucks
-trigger really sucks on russian mosin nagants

[Fate]

Good add-on's Spiggy!