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Did I acquire a fake antique muzzleloader?

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  • Nyanman
    Member
    • Jul 2012
    • 257

    Did I acquire a fake antique muzzleloader?

    I have owned this particular gun for quite a number of years, I inherited it some time ago and it has been with me ever since. I decided to go and take the time and clean it up and see if I could fix it and bring it back to working order. It seemed to have no value, so I decided at the very least I would clean the years of dirt off it and get some oil on the wood and protectant on the metal to stop further decay. This is it before I started.

    The condition is lacking, to say the least. There was damage to many components, and several parts did not seem to fit the style. For instance, the small holder drilled into the underside of the stock was extremely shallow and did not visually match the outlines of other pieces, nor did it match the engraving style. The metal star inlet on the one side and screw seem not original.
    I have hit some major oddities in my work. First, the stock seems to have had a plastic feeling finish on at one point, remnants are still visible.
    The gun is checkered, while no period examples I found showed checkering.
    Not only that, but the grooves are parallel, resulting in flat topped checkering as opposed to the more diamond type I am used to on other guns.
    I followed some advice and attempted to melt out the likely lead plugs from the barrels. First, a solder joint in the front ran.
    None of the other soldered components on the barrel assembly showed any hint of anything, and I know 400F should not even touch proper silver solder.
    Previously the plugs were solid in appearance, and one was notably higher than the other. Now, when I borescope the barrels, I get this strange result:

    There is now a visible wedge of something in one barrel, and some sort of wrap that seems to be numbered.
    I have no experience with known original 1860's muzzleloaders. When I was younger, this got appraised as valueless functionally, but definitely an original civil war era musket. I've never seen a side by side musket with a basic bead sight. The barrels seem to be real, and the stock is wood. However, with the wire wrap on parts, the poor inletting, and other mismatched sections and things like a straight wall checkering cut and plastic feeling finish, i'm really suspecting I have one of several things: Either a replica, a kit that someone made years ago, or an original or several originals that was the project gun of someone some time ago.
    I have an imgur album of all photos I took in examining it if anyone would like some more detail, and I can take more pictures as needed.
    My apologies for only linking images, they did not want to resize down nicely into thumbnails. Any advice is appreciated, I cannot tell if it is original, a kit, a modified original, or a mishmash of modifications and upgrades from multiple originals stuck together. I wish to fix it either way, but I'd like to have a much better idea if it could ever in theory be safe to restore to workable condition (barrels are real, mechanism is real, neither would explode) or if it has to be relegated to a cosmetic fix and being a wallhanger. It's in my care now and has been visibly neglected for decades. It's far older than me most likely, and I think I should do right and not add to the neglect and rot.
    I need to think of a clever thing here.
  • #2
    6mmintl
    Veteran Member
    • Apr 2008
    • 4822

    Looks like a shot shell/wad stuck inside barrel, also, broken wood rod? loaded?

    Id put a rod down inside and measure to nipple to see if loaded, overall condition is poor so would not attenpt to shoot it.

    Hang it on wall.

    Comment

    • #3
      john myers
      Member
      • Jul 2013
      • 414

      Originally posted by 6mmintl
      Looks like a shot shell/wad stuck inside barrel, also, broken wood rod? loaded?

      Id put a rod down inside and measure to nipple to see if loaded, overall condition is poor so would not attenpt to shoot it.

      Hang it on wall.
      kinda hard to fake that patina
      looks like a well used old shotgun modified as needed to keep it shooting over the years
      metal appears too degraded to safely shoot hang it on a wall
      check if loaded may have been packed with pebbles or ?
      Last edited by john myers; 02-03-2017, 10:46 PM.

      Comment

      • #4
        71MUSTY
        Calguns Addict
        • Mar 2014
        • 7029

        I have a wall it would fit on
        Only slaves don't need guns

        Originally posted by epilepticninja
        Americans vs. Democrats
        We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


        We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


        What doesn't kill me, better run

        Comment

        • #5
          SimpleCountryActuary
          Not a miracle worker
          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
          • Dec 2008
          • 2953

          With almost all relics and antiques, it's best to appreciate them for what they have become.

          Best!
          "The most hated initials in America today ... TSA."

          Said by yours truly to an audience of nodding IRS employees.

          Comment

          • #6
            Nyanman
            Member
            • Jul 2012
            • 257

            I have checked the ramrod length using the screw end. In both barrels, the ramrod drops nearly entirely to the bottom but does not touch metal. Previously, it stuck up roughly one inch from the one barrel and roughly 2 inches from the other. There seems to be no powder or shot or wadding loaded, it just seems now to have years of debris packed into it.
            I had a feeling it was too degraded to truly shoot, but it's good to know the patina points to authentic, even if modified. I'll keep working on cleaning it up, removing rust and getting parts protected so it at least is a pretty wallhanger.
            At the very least I have some damaged screws and parts to replace so it will look correct and not as damaged as it currently is.
            Thanks for the advice everyone.
            I need to think of a clever thing here.

            Comment

            • #7
              71MUSTY
              Calguns Addict
              • Mar 2014
              • 7029

              Originally posted by Nyanman
              I have checked the ramrod length using the screw end. In both barrels, the ramrod drops nearly entirely to the bottom but does not touch metal. Previously, it stuck up roughly one inch from the one barrel and roughly 2 inches from the other. There seems to be no powder or shot or wadding loaded, it just seems now to have years of debris packed into it.
              I had a feeling it was too degraded to truly shoot, but it's good to know the patina points to authentic, even if modified. I'll keep working on cleaning it up, removing rust and getting parts protected so it at least is a pretty wallhanger.
              At the very least I have some damaged screws and parts to replace so it will look correct and not as damaged as it currently is.
              Thanks for the advice everyone.
              I would do nothing to it except put it back together and seal it in a coat of something like maybe verathane.
              Only slaves don't need guns

              Originally posted by epilepticninja
              Americans vs. Democrats
              We stand for the Anthem, we kneel for the cross


              We already have the only reasonable Gun Control we need, It's called the Second Amendment and it's the government it controls.


              What doesn't kill me, better run

              Comment

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