Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse

Black Powder Revolver Question?? Please Help

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • #16
    Asphodel
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 1974

    Originally posted by 3rdIris
    Is it possible to shorten the barrel of a 1800 black powder revolver?
    Assuming you mean '1800's as in the 1851 or 1860 models of Colt, for example, or the Remington, Savage, etc., revolvers of that period.....

    Yes, it was not only possible, but quite common for caplock revolvers to be shortened, to become so-called 'pocket pistols' (which needed rather large pockets, to be sure). In the approx 1860 to 1910-ish time frame, many people carried these as self-defence weapons. It was simply accepted that one had six shots, and no practical reload, as the loading lever would be installed to load, and then removed for carry.

    Half a century, more or less, later, in the 1950's, these old guns were often 'kid toys', with boys loading them with 20grs. apx of 3f black, as blank, but were strictly forbidden to load them with ball, for the obvious reason. (some of the boys loaded them with a half-charge of black, and round balls cast from paraffin-wax, which would really 'sting' at close range, like modern 'simunitions'.)

    A common length of shortened barrel was in the 3" to 4" range, not too easily concealable, but the folks of over a century ago had to work with the equipment they had available, at the time.

    You can shorten a caplock revolver with the simple tools of a century ago, if you wish. All you need is a hack-saw, a good sharp fine file, a small square, and a tapered or rounded brass part, such as a large machine screw, to debur/lap the rifling at the cut, using an abrasive, such as automotive valve grinding paste.

    After deciding on the length, the hack-saw cut is obvious. Then, one files the muzzle to 'flat and square', checking with the square until it is correct. Filing a slight chamfer around the muzzle, to de-burr and smooth the cut, is obvious.

    Chucking a large brass round-head machine-screw in an old style hand-drill (or a modern electric drill motor, for that matter) is again obvious. Using a coarse, then fine, lapping-paste (valve grinding compound) on the brass part will clean up and slightly chamfer the bore, to remove any burrs from the rifling. Rock the drill through an angle, as it turns the lap, to spread out the wear on the soft brass. This is a tedious task, but keep with it until nicely done.

    You may wish to have a front sight. If so, just drill a shallow (carefully, not into the bore) hole 3/8" to 1/2" back from the muzzle, on centre, then press in a little piece of round brass stock. File the brass pin to the shape desired, and adjust its height by firing at, say, 35 to 50 foot range. Take care to weigh charges when setting (with a file) the front sight height.....its easy to take a little more off, not so easy to add height.

    Its true enough that longer barrels are better for black powder use. When loading a shortened caplock revolver, these days, one may choose to add a bit of a fast powder, such as bullseye, to the charge of 3f black, which will also reduce powder-fouling. One must be ever so careful to use 'just a little bit', again, for obvious reason.

    cheers

    Carla

    Comment

    • #17
      sigfan91
      Calguns Addict
      • Jun 2009
      • 9754

      Originally posted by Asphodel
      Assuming you mean '1800's as in the 1851 or 1860 models of Colt, for example, or the Remington, Savage, etc., revolvers of that period.....

      Yes, it was not only possible, but quite common for caplock revolvers to be shortened, to become so-called 'pocket pistols' (which needed rather large pockets, to be sure). In the approx 1860 to 1910-ish time frame, many people carried these as self-defence weapons. It was simply accepted that one had six shots, and no practical reload, as the loading lever would be installed to load, and then removed for carry.

      Half a century, more or less, later, in the 1950's, these old guns were often 'kid toys', with boys loading them with 20grs. apx of 3f black, as blank, but were strictly forbidden to load them with ball, for the obvious reason. (some of the boys loaded them with a half-charge of black, and round balls cast from paraffin-wax, which would really 'sting' at close range, like modern 'simunitions'.)
      They shot at each other?

      Kids today are too sheltered....

      Originally posted by Asphodel
      A common length of shortened barrel was in the 3" to 4" range, not too easily concealable, but the folks of over a century ago had to work with the equipment they had available, at the time.

      You can shorten a caplock revolver with the simple tools of a century ago, if you wish. All you need is a hack-saw, a good sharp fine file, a small square, and a tapered or rounded brass part, such as a large machine screw, to debur/lap the rifling at the cut, using an abrasive, such as automotive valve grinding paste.

      After deciding on the length, the hack-saw cut is obvious. Then, one files the muzzle to 'flat and square', checking with the square until it is correct. Filing a slight chamfer around the muzzle, to de-burr and smooth the cut, is obvious.

      Chucking a large brass round-head machine-screw in an old style hand-drill (or a modern electric drill motor, for that matter) is again obvious. Using a coarse, then fine, lapping-paste (valve grinding compound) on the brass part will clean up and slightly chamfer the bore, to remove any burrs from the rifling. Rock the drill through an angle, as it turns the lap, to spread out the wear on the soft brass. This is a tedious task, but keep with it until nicely done.

      You may wish to have a front sight. If so, just drill a shallow (carefully, not into the bore) hole 3/8" to 1/2" back from the muzzle, on centre, then press in a little piece of round brass stock. File the brass pin to the shape desired, and adjust its height by firing at, say, 35 to 50 foot range. Take care to weigh charges when setting (with a file) the front sight height.....its easy to take a little more off, not so easy to add height.

      Its true enough that longer barrels are better for black powder use. When loading a shortened caplock revolver, these days, one may choose to add a bit of a fast powder, such as bullseye, to the charge of 3f black, which will also reduce powder-fouling. One must be ever so careful to use 'just a little bit', again, for obvious reason.

      cheers

      Carla
      Wow, awesome information. Thanks!

      Comment

      • #18
        MrOrange
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2006
        • 2262

        The first thing I thought when I saw the shorty 1860 by Pietta was that they must've made it just for the conversion guys, to make a fairly practical carry piece.

        At Midway


        Perhaps the most famous historical example was El Paso Marshall Dallas Stoudenmire's 1860 .44 Richards-Mason conversion. Plum sawed-off and he didn't even bother with a front sight.

        Article


        But in response to your original question, yes, whether you were talking about legality or practicality. I'm kinda the opposite of most folks, I usually suggest folks give their ideas a whirl, you never know you might up up liking hobby gunsmithing. Better that you're starting with something relatively cheap and easy to replace.
        I meant, it is my opinion that...






        I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence
        I would advise violence. - M. Gandhi
        You're my kind of stupid. - M. Reynolds

        Comment

        • #19
          Paul_R
          CGN/CGSSA Contributor
          CGN Contributor
          • Jan 2011
          • 2847

          Originally posted by musketjon
          Black powder needs a long barrel for complete burning, otherwise you're just blowing unburned powder out the muzzle.....
          Really no different than modern snubbies. Just more messy.
          Fear is a social disease

          Got a jury summons? Know your rights! http://fija.org/

          Comment

          • #20
            winchester1
            Junior Member
            • Jul 2015
            • 45

            Originally posted by 3rdIris
            how mch can they cut before its a problem? also i was thinking of doing it myself so it doesnt cost as much.
            OOPS! This can have a happy ending if you have a lathe and can put a proper crown on the new muzzle. If the crown is not concentric, the gun will never put two rounds in the same place, ever. Other than that, get out your hacksaw and whip away.

            Another option is to buy an aftermarket barrel assy. in the caliber you need. Some of these are appearing on replica sites.

            Good luck -
            winchester1
            California gun laws are proof that some stupid comes in a full metal jacket.

            Comment

            • #21
              MrOrange
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2006
              • 2262

              Originally posted by winchester1
              OOPS! This can have a happy ending if you have a lathe and can put a proper crown on the new muzzle. If the crown is not concentric, the gun will never put two rounds in the same place, ever. Other than that, get out your hacksaw and whip away.

              Another option is to buy an aftermarket barrel assy. in the caliber you need. Some of these are appearing on replica sites.

              Good luck -
              You don't need a lathe. I've hacksawed off centerfire rifle barrels without so much as a vice and finished them by hand with files and sandpaper, and they shot better than before. (I blame the shorter, stiffer barrel harmonics, not taking credit for a better than factory crown.)

              I read about a guy who was competing in the unlimited class of IHMSA, and when he showed up at an out of state match with a new gun, was told by the refs that it was 1/8" too long to be legal. So he borrowed a hacksaw, chopped off about 1/4", used a case chamfering reamer to put on a "crown", and won the match.
              I meant, it is my opinion that...






              I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence
              I would advise violence. - M. Gandhi
              You're my kind of stupid. - M. Reynolds

              Comment

              Working...
              UA-8071174-1