CA approved C&R List

[rick_in_lb]

I was wondering... Is there a list of California approved weapons that are on the Fed List. I would like to make sure I do not break any of this Great State's Laws. For example, I purchased a Yugo SKS and I was told that this is not on the California C&R List I know that there is a guidline to follow for AW's. Just wondering if there was a "Black & White" list I could look at.

Thanks

[ocabj]

You don't need a list.

A C&R that is legal for sale to California should be:

1. 50 years or older

2. Not have any features that make it an assault weapon

3. Not have any features that make it a destructive device (case in point: Yugo M59/66 with grenade launcher)

That pretty much covers everything.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

To know if a C&R firearm can be shipped to you in California just follow the above advice, but it should be added the the firearm has to be a rifle or shotgun too. No handguns can be shipped to you.

If you are travelling out of state and want to purchase a C&R firearm to bring back home to California yourself, you don't need to worry about how old it is and you can buy C&R handguns too. You just have to make sure...

1. you report any C&R handguns to CalDOJ by using Form FD4100A

2. the firearm is compliant with California law before bringing it into the state (remove grenade launcher, configure it to comply with CA A/W laws)

[Librarian]

Other than things like AW considerations, California Penal Code seems to consistently refer to federal regs - 27 CFR 478.11 - for the definition of a curio. For example,

12125. (a) Commencing January 1, 2001, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state
for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends
any unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail not exceeding one year.
(b) This section shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) The manufacture in this state, or importation into this state,
of any prototype pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person when the manufacture or importation is for
the sole purpose of allowing an independent laboratory certified by
the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12130 to conduct an
independent test to determine whether that pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person is prohibited by
this chapter, and, if not, allowing the department to add the firearm
to the roster of pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of
being concealed upon the person that may be sold in this state
pursuant to Section 12131.
(2) The importation or lending of a pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person by employees or
authorized agents of entities determining whether the weapon is
prohibited by this section.
(3) Firearms listed as curios or relics, as defined in Section
478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

[lunde]

Not all C&R handguns are over fifty years old. Bren Tens are on ATF's C&R list, which means they can be imported into California and DROSed ithout hassles.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Other than things like AW considerations, California Penal Code seems to consistently refer to federal regs - 27 CFR 478.11 - for the definition of a curio. For example,

27 CFR 478.11 is just the section of the Code of Federal Regulations that includes the definition of what a C&R firearm is...

27 CFR 478.11 - Definitions

...Curios or relics: Firearms which are of special interest to
collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the
current date, but not including replicas thereof;
(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal,
State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics
of museum interest; and
(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their
monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or
because of their association with some historical figure, period, or
event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this
category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence
that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or
that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial
channels is substantially less.

So it's the same definition that the rest of the country uses for "C&R".

[VeryCoolCat]

Wait a minute.... If you go out of state and purchase C&R rifles, you can bring them into the state legally (even without a C&R 03ffl)?

I know that if you purchase non C&R you have to "mail them" to a california dealer and dros it from there.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Wait a minute.... If you go out of state and purchase C&R rifles, you can bring them into the state legally (even without a C&R 03ffl)?

Yes, but if you don't have a C&R FFL then you can only do it as long as...

1. they are long guns.
2. they are over 50 years old.
3. you purchase them from an FFL at their license premises.
4. they are legal to own in California

If you do have a C&R FFL then the age of the firearm doesn't matter, they don't have to be long guns, and you don't have to buy them from an FFL. They just have to be C&R firearms. They don't even have to be legal in California. You just need to put them in legal configuration before bringing them back.

[ocabj]

Wait a minute.... If you go out of state and purchase C&R rifles, you can bring them into the state legally (even without a C&R 03ffl)?

You need to have a C&R to go out of state and purchase a C&R rifle or handgun.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

You need to have a C&R to go out of state and purchase a C&R rifle or handgun.

Not quite. You don't need a C&R FFL to go out of state and purchase C&R long guns that are over 50 years old and legal to own in California if you purchase them from an out of state FFL at their licensed premises.

Federal law says it is legal to purchase a long gun while out of state if you purchase it from an FFL at their licensed premises and the transaction is legal in both states. California law exempts C&R long guns over 50 years old from having to go through the DROS as long as neither party is a California FFL Dealer.

[EOD Guy]

Yes, but if you don't have a C&R FFL then you can only do it as long as...

1. they are long guns.
2. they are over 50 years old.
3. you purchase them from an FFL at their license premises.
4. they are legal to own in California

If you do have a C&R FFL then the age of the firearm doesn't matter, they don't have to be long guns, and you don't have to buy them from an FFL. They just have to be C&R firearms. They don't even have to be legal in California. You just need to put them in legal configuration before bringing them back.

If you do not have a C&R FFL, you cannot purchase and take possession of any firearms. California law requires that dealer sales have to go through the DROS system and entail a 10 day wait. An out of state dealer cannot sell to an unlicensed California resident unless the transaction complies with California law. The firearm would have to be sent to a California dealer for transfer.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

California law requires that dealer sales have to go through the DROS system and entail a 10 day wait.

But out of state FFL's are not considered "Dealers" under California law. To be considered a "Dealer" under California law you need to have all of the things listed in PC Section 12071(a)(1)...

12071. (a)(1) As used in this chapter, the term "licensee," "person licensed pursuant to Section 12071," or "dealer" means a person who has all of the following:
(A) A valid federal firearms license.
(B) Any regulatory or business license, or licenses, required by local government.
(C) A valid seller's permit issued by the State Board of Equalization.
(D) A certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to paragraph (4).
(E) A license issued in the format prescribed by paragraph (6).
(F) Is among those recorded in the centralized list specified in subdivision (e).

Out of state FFL's are most likely only going to have items A and B off of that list, so they are not legally licensed dealers under California law. So they don't have to DROS 50 year old long guns.

[EOD Guy]

But out of state FFL's are not considered "Dealers" under California law. To be considered a "Dealer" under California law you need to have all of the things listed in PC Section 12071(a)(1)...



Out of state FFL's are most likely only going to have items A and B off of that list, so they are not legally licensed dealers under California law. So they don't have to DROS 50 year old long guns.

That's the reason unlicensed California residents can't buy from out of state dealers.

The point is moot anyway. Few, if any, out of state dealers will sell directly to California residents.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

That's the reason unlicensed California residents can't buy from out of state dealers.

What's the reason?

Since they are not California Dealers they don't have to do the DROS. Since the firearm would be a 50 year old long gun, it doesn't have to go through a California Dealer.

Federal law says it's OK.
California law says it's OK.

What's the problem?

[EOD Guy]

What's the reason?

Since they are not California Dealers they don't have to do the DROS. Since the firearm would be a 50 year old long gun, it doesn't have to go through a California Dealer.

Federal law says it's OK.
California law says it's OK.

What's the problem?

OK, I see that what you are saying would apply to 50 year old rifles and shotguns. The problem is that Federal law requires purchase thorough a licensee if you are not in your state of residence and that the purchase be legal in both states.

Most dealers in adjacent states will not have anything to do with California residents and will not be aware, or care, that the sale might be legal. I have had dealers refuse to sell to me even with a C&R FFL.

C&R FFLs might be agreeable to a sale but the sale would have to take place at their licensed premesis unless the buyer is also licensed.