School me on.. "Bring Back" Papers..

[ArnoldKC]

I would love to know more about bring back papers that followed thousands of handguns and rifles that came home to America after the World Wars or Korea/Vietnam. What do they look like? Were there exceptions to getting these papers or were they mandatory? Thanks!

Almost forgot, if anyone has a handgun or rifle with these, and you're thinking of selling, let me know first!

[zinfull]

They add a certain amount into the price as people like authenticity. But they are easy to counterfeit and in WWII collecting are considered nice but not worth extra money. Buy the gun not the story.

[Jimja]

There are a couple of threads on Gunboards and here on Calguns talking about this:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1104815

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?111886-Fake-Capture-Papers-Can-You-Tell

Be careful, there are a lot of fakes out there. Some are completely new fakes, some are written after the war on old blank papers, some are "erased" and a different gun, serial number and even a new soldier/ASN # is written.

While a lot of people do not pay a premium for them, some do. I personally collect these as well, and am always willing to pay a premium for correct, legitimate papers. Usually it's a couple of hundred $, but in some cases, for rare guns, the paper premium can be significantly more than that

[Jimja]

Buy the gun not the story.

In this particular case, I would strongly disagree. If I can buy a gun with real, legitimate papers, I can most likely then do research on the GI/Vet, sometimes getting complete service records. I would gladly pay extra for "the story" in this case

[ArnoldKC]

Thanks guys. As a Historian, I cannot help it.. I would absolutely love to know the story behind my firearms..

[pitfighter]

C+R is an interesting category.

You have C+R enthusiasts who sign in to the mindset: "...I would NEVER own a gun I cannot shoot..."
To these collectors your capture papers are not of much value.
This post is not for them, I salute them and wish them well, this is America and they are free to do as they wish.

Then there are collectors of firearms, who attribute more value to a firearm than it's worth on the range - be it historical or technical, to these guys, the collecting of firearms is about more than cheap ammo and range days with the boys.
To this group of enthusiasts the addition of capture papers will add varying degrees of value to a firearm - to a Luger, or sub $5K pistol or rifle, between $100 and $500 - when you get into the high end C+R firearms, the addition of capture papers can complete and complement a multiple thousand dollar package.

To the story - the firearm could have been captured at Cassino and brought in a backpack to Northern France where it is registered with the commander for shipment home.
The soldier registering it, to be sent home could have been a rear echelon clerk, who traded it with a combat vet, who won it in a card game. So, historical provenance beyond the fact that that individual registered with his commander on that date at that location is still vague.

But, even that small piece of hard-core fact is worth money.

WW2 vs. Vietnam, Panama, Grenada, Korea - Bringback papers.
I will say little on this except this:
There is a whole lot more WW2 bringback material than there is Vietnam - if you have Vietnam ringback papers DO NOT sell that item cheaply.
If you want to sell it PM me

[SVT-40]

I have a Vietnam bring back in my collection....

[mosinnagantm9130]

Gotta be careful with fake papers, although SVTs up there^^ look good to me.

Generally I follow the "buy the gun, not the story" motto, but sometimes the story is legit too.

[ArnoldKC]

Thanks for your post pitfighter. I guess I am the type of collector who is in it for the Historical value. I have my range guns, but my C&Rs are my babies. I'd trade all of my modern guns in a heartbeat for an old, original STG-44.. Just sayin'!

[ArnoldKC]

SVT-40.. Beautiful SKS you have there..

[pitfighter]

Here is the follow up -

Collecting "historical" firearms is a mine field.

Recently any WW2 bolt action that does't have import marks is sold as "Bringback", this is absolute garbage, any firearm imported from stockpiles of literally hundreds of thousands of rifles in Europe, by various importers between 1945 and 1968 didn't have to have import marks.
These are the rifles that fill the back pages of 1950's and 60's sporting rifle magazines.
The stories of collecting these riflers and importing them to the US will fill a book - here is a fun read - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Cummings

Collectors knew this, and wanting a genuine wartime Bringback, meant having the papers to prove it.

Now of course we have Sporters returned to military spec being sold as original, imported rifles getting the marks removed, and stocks getting cut to look like duffel cuts.
So, a genuine bring-back paper is valuable.
(Just learn to spot the fake bring-back paperwork, lol.)

There is nothing wrong with wanting to own the first and only truly genuinely name branded "assault weapon" in a state that seems to have some confusion with the definition.

[Bobby Ricigliano]

It was explained to me that bring back papers are papers that describe things that were brought back.

When I bought my P38, I was told that it had been recovered from the Reich Chancellery by a Russian General, and later traded to an American GI for a case of spam and a carton of lucky strikes. I haven't received the documentation yet, but I have been assured it is on the way.

[ArnoldKC]

I really would love to own one with capture papers. The only "bring back" I have is my wife's late grandfather's Arisaka he brought home from Guam.

[Saigon1965]

[ArnoldKC]

Thank you for your feedback Saigon. I will continue to hunt one of these down, when I find one, I'll post pictures!