Antique firearms

[Tmckinney]

I am amazed at the number of sellers on line who dont understand the rules for antique firearms. Its ao fruatrating when you see a great deal on a rifle you should be able to get directly, and yet they want an ffl.

I have been looking to add more early mausers to the safe. They can be cheaper than a mosin and ahipped direct. What's not love about that?

I try to explain, but some people are too obtuse. Anybody have a method that works?

[81turbota]

It's a phobia of antiques coupled with the California stigma. With the minefield of gun laws, some sellers demand an FFL for an antique firearm even though it's not required as they hold these pervasive laws in fear. Some otherwise well educated sellers avoid CA altogether.

Unfortunately the decision to ship it, legally of course, is on the seller. I have convinced otherwise obstinate sellers that CA COE coupled with an FFL03 is good to go. I have also provided said documents to sellers with antique Mosins to avoid hassle - "well, the barrel says 1937 so it's not antique" yeah, never mind that 1897 receiver buddy.

The buyer is at the mercy of the seller, if the seller does not have their conditions met, albeit excessive and unnecessary, they are under no obligation to sell it to you. The best advice I can give is politely provide the penal codes, both federal and state that declare pre January 1, 1899 firearms (with the additional jargon) as antiques and also that the receiver IS the firearm (not the barrel) and hope for the best. I reference penal code 27966 (California C&R long gun exemption with COE/FFL03) regularly with generally favorable results. Good luck!

[Tmckinney]

I was mostly venting. Its frustrating, but no big deal in the ling run. Its only money and time

[emcon5]

Soooooooooo.....

Whatcha find? I don't live in CA any more.....

[sakosf]

It's a phobia of antiques coupled with the California stigma. With the minefield of gun laws, some sellers demand an FFL for an antique firearm even though it's not required as they hold these pervasive laws in fear. Some otherwise well educated sellers avoid CA altogether.

Unfortunately the decision to ship it, legally of course, is on the seller. I have convinced otherwise obstinate sellers that CA COE coupled with an FFL03 is good to go. I have also provided said documents to sellers with antique Mosins to avoid hassle - "well, the barrel says 1937 so it's not antique" yeah, never mind that 1897 receiver buddy.

The buyer is at the mercy of the seller, if the seller does not have their conditions met, albeit excessive and unnecessary, they are under no obligation to sell it to you. The best advice I can give is politely provide the penal codes, both federal and state that declare pre January 1, 1899 firearms (with the additional jargon) as antiques and also that the receiver IS the firearm (not the barrel) and hope for the best. I reference penal code 27966 (California C&R long gun exemption with COE/FFL03) regularly with generally favorable results. Good luck!

Here is an example off the Empire Arms "sold" list of antiques. This rifle has a Tula 1893 mfg receiver, the receiver is the gun, hence it's a antique

http://www.empirearms.com/10172.jpg

[Tmckinney]

Soooooooooo.....

Whatcha find? I don't live in CA any more.....

Its not just CA. Its everywhere. If you look on Gunbroker.com you'll see a lot of antique bolt guns that require a full ffl from the seller.

[empirearms]

Its not just CA. Its everywhere. If you look on Gunbroker.com you'll see a lot of antique bolt guns that require a full ffl from the seller.

That is simply the seller covering his ***. . . his prerogative.

Buy your stuff elsewhere from someone who actually WANTS your business and isn't too damned lazy to read and understand the regulations.

[CSACANNONEER]

I had a FFL do a DROS on a cap and ball revolver back in 1987. I didn't know it until I requested a list of firearms "registered" to me from DOJ and saw it on the list.

[Discogodfather]

I just bought two antique Mausers and had them shipped to my door from two different GB sellers, they where cool. One of the problems with most "shlockers" is that they don't really know firearms, so they are weary of "dating" an old rifle. It's very difficult because some rifles have model numbers that have nothing to do with when they where made. For instance, model 98 does not mean it was made in 1898, model 91 does not mean it was made in 1891.

If the auction has no wording about "direct shipment" and "antique" then expect problems.

Experts like Empire can make these distinctions because that is a real collectors level of knowledge, it scares the hell out of regular FFL's. The penalties for getting it wrong could be jail.

There are few pre-1898 mausers that have any dates stamped on them outside of the M96 Swedes. For example, a Chilean model 1895 typically has an 1895 stock cartouche but that does not mean it was made in 1895.

Here is a shortcut to pre 1898 mausers that most dealers will know: Anything marked Loewe Berlin is garanteed pre 1898 because Loewe merged with DWM in 1896. All Loewe rifles are defacto antiques.

[6mmintl]

Transfers being required of antique rifles by their owner is a real difficult thing to understand, it means your dealing with someone who not only does not know the law, they probably do not know firearms and the care of these older guns. Im sure they don't shoot or reload for them either.

Antiques are a nice niche for collecting historical and perfectly shootable guns if you know what you looking at/for.

Ive been primarily focusing on older obscure military rifles the past 20 years and restore shoot them all, my favorites are the 1886 Kropatchek, 1892 Swede 8x58RD rolling blocks, and 1888 commission rifles typically 8mm mauser.

If anyone is interested in antiques I have two 88-05-35 Turk 1888 long rifles (one is as new rebuild), an 1892 Swede Sporter 8x58RD (make brass from 8x56R Steyr PRVI brass), SS Cadet rifle with Marlin 32-20 barrel (very accurate), and a 1871 Swiss vetterli.

Ship straight to your door.