Revolver safe Minimum Loads.

[tomcat315]

I have 3 BP revolvers. I have been using 777 3f and will continue to until it's all used up. Currently I use 25 grains in my 1858 and 1860 44s. I use 20 grains in my 1851 36. I know I don't need to use this much especially with the higher pressure 777 creates. My question is how low can I go grain wise without possibly having space in the chamber that could cause an obstruction? I really don't feel like using cornmeal as a filler either. Just another step that takes up range time. When answering this question please take into consideration I am using 777 and will continue to do so. Also that a use lubed wads. The 36 cal ones are much thinner than the 44 ones. I don't know the exact thickness of the wads. I just want to make sure that ram goes down far enough so there is no space. Input?

[Eljay]

So the question is how low can you go without getting an air gap between the powder and ball before the ram bottoms out?

Doesn't matter what powder it is since we're using a volume measurement. I use 777 in the revolvers though.

All I can tell you is that I shoot my "fantasy" .44 1851, brass framed way down at 17gr. My accuracy loads in the regular 1851 and 1858 are the same as the load you're using. I'm sure I would have gone lower during testing but I don't have the number in front of me as to how low I tried. I run my Paterson (.36) down at 15 grains but I load that off the gun, so no lever issues!

I do use wads and don't use filler.

If I really wanted to know I suppose I'd just play around with it. You can try something low, then just unscrew the nipple and look if there's a gap back there or not...

[71MUSTY]

But I got to tell you nothing smells as good as burning malt o meal. Actually I wouldn't use it for live loads. Blanks is a different story.

[tomcat315]

So the question is how low can you go without getting an air gap between the powder and ball before the ram bottoms out?

Doesn't matter what powder it is since we're using a volume measurement. I use 777 in the revolvers though.

All I can tell you is that I shoot my "fantasy" .44 1851, brass framed way down at 17gr. My accuracy loads in the regular 1851 and 1858 are the same as the load you're using. I'm sure I would have gone lower during testing but I don't have the number in front of me as to how low I tried. I run my Paterson (.36) down at 15 grains but I load that off the gun, so no lever issues!

I do use wads and don't use filler.

If I really wanted to know I suppose I'd just play around with it. You can try something low, then just unscrew the nipple and look if there's a gap back there or not...

What I would like to try is 20 grains in my two 44s and 15 grains in my 36. Do you think that would be safe air gap wise?

[tomcat315]

Wow check out piettas loading data. That's who made my guns btw. These volume measurements are very low. There is no data for 777. But just based on volume its should be the same. Thoughts?

https://www.muzzle-loaders.com/articles/pietta-recommended-powder-loads/

[Eljay]

What I would like to try is 20 grains in my two 44s and 15 grains in my 36. Do you think that would be safe air gap wise?

I would be comfortable trying that. In fact, I checked my notes and I run a lot of .36s at 15 grains, although not that specific model.

I'm surprised that they list such low numbers on the link you provided, but presumably those are well tested numbers.

[Dutch3]

If you are concerned about the loading ram bottoming out and leaving a gap between the ball and powder, you could employ some kind of spacer between the ram and the ball to ensure a solid seat.

You could run the ball down with the ram as far as it will go, then retract the ram and use a short piece of dowel or (?) on top of the ball as a spacer and ram it down again to be sure it is seated.

Just thinking out loud and not sure I would really be that concerned about it. When using 777 in my .44 1858s, I use 30 grains and have never had any issue. I know I have done 25 as well, but don't recall ever loading less than that.

[Frotz]

What're you trying to do? Come up with a load that results in the bullet plopping to the ground about twelve feet ahead of the muzzle?

[tomcat315]

I would be comfortable trying that. In fact, I checked my notes and I run a lot of .36s at 15 grains, although not that specific model.

I'm surprised that they list such low numbers on the link you provided, but presumably those are well tested numbers.

I was surprised too.

[tomcat315]

If you are concerned about the loading ram bottoming out and leaving a gap between the ball and powder, you could employ some kind of spacer between the ram and the ball to ensure a solid seat.

You could run the ball down with the ram as far as it will go, then retract the ram and use a short piece of dowel or (?) on top of the ball as a spacer and ram it down again to be sure it is seated.

Just thinking out loud and not sure I would really be that concerned about it. When using 777 in my .44 1858s, I use 30 grains and have never had any issue. I know I have done 25 as well, but don't recall ever loading less than that.

Simple solution. Good Suggestion.

[tomcat315]

What're you trying to do? Come up with a load that results in the bullet plopping to the ground about twelve feet ahead of the muzzle?

I have heard that these pistols are more accurate with lighter loads. I would like to safely test that theory.

[Frotz]

I have heard that these pistols are more accurate with lighter loads. I would like to safely test that theory.

Ah... I thought it would be funny to cook up the absolutely lowest charge that would get a bullet out of the barrel.

[Eljay]

They're not necessarily more accurate with lighter loads. There's a sweet spot that could be anywhere. Once you're settled in with a cap and ball gun and shooting groups you should try shooting some groups at 5gr increments and see what happens to the group size and if two are about the same try the in-between load.

So for my .44's just to give some idea, all using 777, and balls. I'll skip the load data for conicals.
1858 - 25gr
1851 .44 brass - 17gr
1860 - 30gr
1847 - 35gr (I've tried up to 45 and haven't gone past that)
Rogers and Spencer - 30gr

re: the 1858 shooting conical bullets it's most accurate at 35gr.

[tomcat315]

Thanks

They're not necessarily more accurate with lighter loads. There's a sweet spot that could be anywhere. Once you're settled in with a cap and ball gun and shooting groups you should try shooting some groups at 5gr increments and see what happens to the group size and if two are about the same try the in-between load.

So for my .44's just to give some idea, all using 777, and balls. I'll skip the load data for conicals.
1858 - 25gr
1851 .44 brass - 17gr
1860 - 30gr
1847 - 35gr (I've tried up to 45 and haven't gone past that)
Rogers and Spencer - 30gr

re: the 1858 shooting conical bullets it's most accurate at 35gr.

This is helpful. Thanks. I didn't know they had conicals for revolvers. Do you need a wad? Or just seat and bore butter and go? Sorry for the late reply.

My current loading data for 777

1858 44cal: 25gr 454 ball with lubed wad
1860 44cal: 25gr 451 ball with lubed wad
1851 36cAl: 20gr 375 ball with lubed wad

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Guys, you are stressing about this WAY too much. The pressures you are talking about, and the powders you are using aren't likely to blow up anything, even if there is an air gap. There is a world of difference between a .58 caliber musket with 120 grains of powder, and a .36 caliber revolver loaded with 15-17 grains of BP or BP substitute, and a 71 grain ball. You aren't going to get it to Ka-Boom with that.

-Mb