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[george702]

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[Flyin Brian]

The rifle in question is a Winchester Model 94 made in 1924. TRAP55 gave me the manufacture date. It has a 20" barrel, but no saddle ring. Could this rifle be an Eastern Saddle Ring Carbine or maybe even a special order from the factory? Serial #968XXX

Well it's clearly not an "Eastern Saddle Ring Carbine" as there is no such thing, and it does not have a saddle ring. It could be an Eastern Carbine which is just the name they called the Saddle Ring Carbine without the Saddle Ring

I'm not sure what else info could be given here. It's out of the serial range of a factory letter, and I don't see any features that would support it being a special order. The fact that someone buffed on it with a wire brush has pretty much destroyed any collector value in it... so it's what I would refer to as a shooter grade carbine. Is it chambered in 30 WCF or something else? Have you shot it?

I do like the looks of the older ones like this with the long wood and the barrel band in front of the sight.

[supergimp]

Looks to me like a pretty standard 94 carbine with the finish scrubbed off. Rifles have a forend cap and carbines have a band, typically. Winchester made various length barrels for both (although the long barrels usually came in the rifle configuration and the carbines short, there were "short rifles" and "long carbines.") According to Winchester it looks like 1926 (list is last SN of the year):

http://www.winchesterguns.com/support/files/images/wfa/2012-All/2012-Articles/Winchester-Manufacture-Dates-by-Year----2012-Scanned-Documents.pdf

The interesting thing is that it doesn't not have the standard carbine (shotgun) stock, but what looks like a crescent (rifle) stock. Winchester did make a curved buttplate carbine (I have one in my collection) but I don't recall how it compared with the crescent. It may be a standard carbine with a rifle stock. Maybe special order, but definitely not deluxe.

It would be a nice piece if it weren't for the finish. If it was still blued and were mine I'd definitely spring for a Cody letter just to see if that stock was original. As it is I'd just lube it up and go plinking.

I'd love it if anyone could ID that butt. I'm a bit of a 94 nut (I have 11 of them) so I've done a lot of random research and talked to the folks in Cody quite a bit, but there's always more to learn.

[Croweman08]

looks like it was special ordered with the Rifle style buttstock. Standard carbines came with the carbine styled buttstock...definitely a nice carbine minus the finish on the receiver..would be worth a little more if the caliber was something other then 30-30

[Flyin Brian]

Looks to me like a pretty standard 94 carbine with the finish scrubbed off. Rifles have a forend cap and carbines have a band, typically. Winchester made various length barrels for both (although the long barrels usually came in the rifle configuration and the carbines short, there were "short rifles" and "long carbines.") According to Winchester it looks like 1926 (list is last SN of the year):

http://www.winchesterguns.com/support/files/images/wfa/2012-All/2012-Articles/Winchester-Manufacture-Dates-by-Year----2012-Scanned-Documents.pdf

The interesting thing is that it doesn't not have the standard carbine (shotgun) stock, but what looks like a crescent (rifle) stock. Winchester did make a curved buttplate carbine (I have one in my collection) but I don't recall how it compared with the crescent. It may be a standard carbine with a rifle stock. Maybe special order, but definitely not deluxe.

It would be a nice piece if it weren't for the finish. If it was still blued and were mine I'd definitely spring for a Cody letter just to see if that stock was original. As it is I'd just lube it up and go plinking.

I'd love it if anyone could ID that butt. I'm a bit of a 94 nut (I have 11 of them) so I've done a lot of random research and talked to the folks in Cody quite a bit, but there's always more to learn.

If you're a 94 nut, you might want to look into getting your date info from another source than the document you provided. The Winchester Collector Association has the correct date info on their website:

http://winchestercollector.org/

There is a page on that site that you enter your serial number into and it will provide you with the correct year, which in this case is 1924, not 1926.

If you've been using that other document to date your 11 1894s you might be surprised when you enter them into this date utility!!

Also, there is no sense in asking Cody for a letter on this, as it is far past the serial number range that they will have any records on regarding the stock, sights, etc. The only thing they might have is the month/day/year of Manufacture.

[Flyin Brian]

looks like it was special ordered with the Rifle style buttstock. Standard carbines came with the carbine styled buttstock...definitely a nice carbine minus the finish on the receiver..would be worth a little more if the caliber was something other then 30-30

Good point on the plate. When I looked at it on my computer the pictures were arranged to where I would have had to scroll to see the buttplate and I didn't bother to do that. Too bad it is out of the range that can be verified.

The only hope would be to remove the stock and see if there is a factory serial number stamped in the inletting area... although I don't recall if they were still doing that in the 20s?

[supergimp]

If you're a 94 nut, you might want to look into getting your date info from another source than the document you provided. The Winchester Collector Association has the correct date info on their website:

http://winchestercollector.org/

There is a page on that site that you enter your serial number into and it will provide you with the correct year, which in this case is 1924, not 1926.

If you've been using that other document to date your 11 1894s you might be surprised when you enter them into this date utility!!

Also, there is no sense in asking Cody for a letter on this, as it is far past the serial number range that they will have any records on regarding the stock, sights, etc. The only thing they might have is the month/day/year of Manufacture.

Interesting, I wonder what the disparity is. The pdf I've been using is from Winchester themselves. Been using it for years and it jives with The Winchester Handbook in my experience, so I guess we'll just have to average the numbers?

Learn something new every day.

And you're right about Cody. Their useful data runs out. Didn't bother to look up when.

[Flyin Brian]

Interesting, I wonder what the disparity is. The pdf I've been using is from Winchester themselves. Been using it for years and it jives with The Winchester Handbook in my experience, so I guess we'll just have to average the numbers?

Learn something new every day.

And you're right about Cody. Their useful data runs out. Didn't bother to look up when.

There's a thread here in the C&R section stickies that is titled "have an old Winchester?" or something close... it explains the difference in dates there in post #1 pretty well so I won't repeat it here.

The real issue is now that the true date info has been revealed, many people have found their collection of antique Winchesters turned into a collection of C&R winchesters overnight. I think they have been looking at the old info so long that they refuse to even look at the new info. In the Fjestad Blue book, they went as far as printing the old Madis dates and the new Cody dates next to each other and left it at that!!

It kind of reminds me of the science community when they find out something that has been accepted as fact for years is disproven. Man people refuse to accept it and it takes a while for them to die off

[supergimp]

There's a thread here in the C&R section stickies that is titled "have an old Winchester?" or something close... it explains the difference in dates there in post #1 pretty well so I won't repeat it here.

The real issue is now that the true date info has been revealed, many people have found their collection of antique Winchesters turned into a collection of C&R winchesters overnight. I think they have been looking at the old info so long that they refuse to even look at the new info. In the Fjestad Blue book, they went as far as printing the old Madis dates and the new Cody dates next to each other and left it at that!!

It kind of reminds me of the science community when they find out something that has been accepted as fact for years is disproven. Man people refuse to accept it and it takes a while for them to die off

Honestly, I just never bothered to look. I've got no issue with new info. I keep that doc (pdf) on my phone for quick reference at gun shows, and is generally the first place I look as I never felt the need to look elsewhere. Live and learn.

That's the cool thing about these firearms, including the one in this thread (see what I did there? - bring it back on-topic). There are so many variations that it's fun to research and discuss and learn. I think that's why I have so many. Whenever I see a new configuration I have to get it and figure out what it's all about.

The OP has a cool rifle, nonetheless.

[Croweman08]

Does the fact that the bluing is gone on the receiver really kill all collectors value? The barrel still has a lot of the bluing left. I have the Fjestad Blue Book and I'm trying to figure out what this rifle's condition would be percentage wise. All the parts are original as far as I can tell and it is a good shooter, no rust or pitting, and the bore has strong rifling. Would rating it at 30% or 40%be unrealistic? Or is this just a 10% shooters grade?

once the bluing on the reciever is gone....either by hand or nature, the value of a winchester drops significantly!!

take that gun to the Reno show and every dealer there would say the gun is a shooter with no collector value. That being said, if it was a caliber other then 30-30 and had special options (half mag, shorter barrel, pistol grip, etc. ) the gun would have more value. believe me, i've made that mistake when i first started collecting winchesters.

[Croweman08]

Good point on the plate. When I looked at it on my computer the pictures were arranged to where I would have had to scroll to see the buttplate and I didn't bother to do that. Too bad it is out of the range that can be verified.

The only hope would be to remove the stock and see if there is a factory serial number stamped in the inletting area... although I don't recall if they were still doing that in the 20s?

i dont think they were doing that anymore unless the gun was a deluxe special order rifle. Usually when the buttstock was of a Grade X or better

[THBailey]

A little here about the "Eastern Carbine":

http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=458400