Martini Conversions?

[Spectre1995]

Hey all,

I've seen some posts on various forums about people converting Martini rifles to calibers such as .22LR, and I'm wondering if that would be legal, to convert an antique to accept a conventional caliber?

I know there are some "non antique" (Post 1898) ones that accept conventional ammunition, but would it be out of the question (illegal) to have an antique re-done in a conventional caliber?

Thank you all in advance

[81turbota]

I know the way the law is written, but there are plenty of pre-1898 firearms that accept modern centerfire ammunition.

Various Mausers, Mosins etc. I understand this does not address your conversion question, I am waiting on insight as well.

[corerftech]

What you do to your antiques is your business.
End of subject.

Does the gov care if you convert your brass table lamp from incandescent to led? Nope. Not being derogatory.

That's a pretty powerful accurate parallel.

Can you sell as an antique after conversion?
That's a grey area!!!! A 44'mag rolling block is a pretty iffy deal.
I've never seen one sold w/o a dealer involved, sold as an 01 modern sale.
It's for sure a grey area.
Unscrew the barrel, sell it in pieces, etc.

The ATF has wording that says a c&r can have some parts replaced and Even be re chambered to a diff cartridge and still be c&r. That letter was sent as clarification to a prominent antique dealer. Interestingly enough a raw receiver iirc, in that letter, was no longer c&r. I have always considered a receiver c&r, but many dealers and collectors will not sell one w/o an 01 exchange. That's doesn't concern antiques but it draws a parallel again.

Back to antiques. Antiques are not guns and can't be converted into guns. If it's an antique that shoots, rules are it's still a 150myear old piece of pottery, an Egyptian shard, a 1000 yr old,Persian rug.

It's a sticky situation.
A 45-70 sharps is antique,but shoots a current production cartridge. If you rebarrel it to same, there is no change. If you barrel it to 7 mag, aside from losing your face, it's still an antique.

What a trainwreck, contradictions all over the place.

Be advised if it's antique status it's pretty much too weak typically to be chambered for a high pressure modern round. That is a very broad statement with so many loopholes it's scary. But that is the general rule. That's why the gov made an 1898 cutoff. That's the year that much technology changed, everywhere.

A second parallel, can you convert your colt percussion revolver, either the real deal or repro, to centerfire? Of course you can. Can you sell it with conv cyl in place, negative.

Again that should help with your judgement call.
I deal i antique rifles that send some powerful modern produced cartridges down the road, that doesn't make them less of an antique or any more modern.
Bsa martini cadets in 32-20/32-40/32special, converted from 310 cadet, depending on year (pre 98) are still antiques. Those mods were made more often than not after 1968. Receivers were built before 98, they stay antique. The biggest most powerful dealers of fine arms,in the public eye, hold to these conditions.

Another confirmation that an antique status bsa stays antique even if chambered to high pressure modern produced cartridge.

Another confirmation that it's your lamp, do with it what you like. Screw a safe barrel on it and go for it.

Hope that helps.

Mike

[Spectre1995]

Well I should have mentioned this earlier but I was looking at a Greener MKIII that was converted to shoot 12/14 (a specialty shotgun cartridge), but I've seen these converted to 12 gauge.

[corerftech]

I don't think there are greener shotguns of the martini type, originally produced in shotgun confit that are antique. Check your blue books. Greener martinis, unless there were variants, are all c&r.

I've tried like hell to get one in antique status for several years, and can't find one. All that I have seen were c&r, pisses me off.

I've been wrong before and am not near my blue books....... Pretty sure they are c&r.

Again in any case, if it's antique, do as you please. The swedes took rolling blocks and reamed 50 cal rifles to 12-32 bore shotguns, with modern chambers.
They are sold every day as antique,


The receiver date is really the final defining factor of status.
The cartridge has nothing to do with it, except when the gun has potentially been re manufactured....... Like the 44 mag mentioned above. And even then, it's still really an antique.......

The 44 mag examples I have seen........ May have been built on #5 actions of 1901 circa, which puts it In the honest c&r class at best and as c&r, if you butcher one enough it changes class again to modern. So my 44 mag conversions may not apply solidly.

Cut it up and have a good time.

[Spectre1995]

The way I read the law, I figured the Greener's would "count as" a Replica of the Martini rifles, and they are also chambered in a cartridge that is not readily available, 12/14 Gauge.

[corerftech]

Then a uberti replica of a 76 winny chambered in 38-72 would also be in the same class. It's not, it's a modern firearm, even though you can't buy anywhere on earth 38-72'factory ammo or brass. It's all handmade from parent brass.

Again the greeners are post 98, regardless of cartridge.

Mods don't matter till you sell. If you rebarrel your trash can to 338 lapua that's ok, till you sell it. The gov doesn't care what you do with it( don't go down any goofy roads now), till you sell it.

So again, cut er up without any regard. Have the conversation again when you want to sell it or otherwise dispose. Greeners are bad ***, you can give them balls via rebarrel!!

[SonofWWIIDI]

If you put some olive juice in it, that called a dirty martini...oh, wait. Nevermind.

[smle-man]

Well I should have mentioned this earlier but I was looking at a Greener MKIII that was converted to shoot 12/14 (a specialty shotgun cartridge), but I've seen these converted to 12 gauge.

Navy Arms used to convert the Greener SG actions to 45-70 rifles.