FP-45 Liberator

[desertjunkie760]

it's intent was as a gun "to get a gun".

That was probably the least helpful amount of info yet. Thanks

What is the legal status of the original Liberator, federally and in CA? I know the reproductions were deliberately made with rifled barrels while the originals are smooth bored. Outside CA are these considered AOW or just plain old pistols, inside CA are they considered an SBS?

in CA, these are considered "unconventional pistols" due to the smoothbore, but are exempt from that law due to their federal C&R status.

federally, they are exempt from the NFA due to them being declared
C&R

What federal law are you discussing? What is an SBS? I mean literally, these pistols are single shot from 1942. How bad can that be.

As far as finding one thats not the issue. I have found one that has been in the family for a long time. The problem is deciding if I want to purchase it and how much a fair price would be for both parties. It does not have original box or cartoon instructions.

[HibikiR]

Here is more on the Vietnam era
" deer gun"...
a thousand were purchased in 1964 to give to the south Vietnamese guerrillas.

Thanks! Is it odd that I like the Liberator more than the Deer Gun?

[HibikiR]

That was probably the least helpful amount of info yet. Thanks.

He was right, just not detailed.

There was no real way to arm the resistance with any meaningful weaponry, but they were surrounded by German weaponry. The Liberator was meant to help them acquire the German weaponry by helping them mug any vulnerable Germans. Sneak up behind a German, use the Liberator, then grab the German's guns and RUN!

What is an SBS?

Short barreled shotgun, a big no-no in California and doesn't apply to the Liberator.

[dfletcher]

What federal law are you discussing? What is an SBS? I mean literally, these pistols are single shot from 1942. How bad can that be.

As far as finding one thats not the issue. I have found one that has been in the family for a long time. The problem is deciding if I want to purchase it and how much a fair price would be for both parties. It does not have original box or cartoon instructions.

An "SBS" is a "Short Barreled Shotgun" and there are federal, state laws governing such things. There used to be, may still be, laws regarding "smoothbore pistols" too, I'm just not too up on them. Regarding the "how bad can it be?" because it's only a single shot, I have a Bond Bond Derringer & keep the 3.5" 45 Colt/410 barrel out of state because even when not attached to a gun the barrel, in CA, is considered an SBS. Makes no sense to me either. Of course the Bond is different from the Liberator because the Bond accepts a shotgun shell.

Reason I ask the general question is that if something is illegal in CA it's generally more difficult to sell. And if one goes to the surrounding states to sell, FFLs and others often know we are "motivated sellers".

[ke6guj]

What federal law are you discussing? What is an SBS? I mean literally, these pistols are single shot from 1942. How bad can that be.

I'm talking about the federal NFA law that considers "smoothbore pistols", which the liberator is, to be "any other weapons" (AOW) and subject to the NFA which requires you to have a $5 or $200 tax stamp to possess it.

smoothbore pistols are normally felonies in both CA and federally, even if they are single-shot. however, the liberator has been specifically removed from the NFA due to its collectibilty as a C&R and is therefore federally legal as well as being legal in CA.

[Hardwarejunkie]

Here's the replica: http://vintageordnance.com/

At one time they offered a CA compliant model - wanted one but never got it.

[stonefly-2]

[QUOTE=desertjunkie760;16000927]That was probably the least helpful amount of info yet. Thanks

geez, sorry.
i was afraid i would insult you by over explaining something so simple and , well.... obvious.

[desertjunkie760]

I'm talking about the federal NFA law that considers "smoothbore pistols", which the liberator is, to be "any other weapons" (AOW) and subject to the NFA which requires you to have a $5 or $200 tax stamp to possess it.

smoothbore pistols are normally felonies in both CA and federally, even if they are single-shot. however, the liberator has been specifically removed from the NFA due to its collectibilty as a C&R and is therefore federally legal as well as being legal in CA.

Thank you for clarifying. Sometimes I wonder who makes these rules. I don't understand how something smooth bore is NFA regulated and under a separate category, but that is probably a separate thread in itself.

If one were to actually purchase a liberator, who they be subject to a PPT transaction? That might seem obvious, however the liberators don't have any identifications. How can that be DROSed, plus its a relic.

At one time they offered a CA compliant model - wanted one but never got it.

Ha, I don't know if that barrel is long enough to be CA compliant.

[HibikiR]

Ha, I don't know if that barrel is long enough to be CA compliant.

The original barrel is ~4", so that looks to be ~10" if not a bit more.

I'm still wondering about the bore.

[aghauler]

They had one at Cabela's in Reno a while back, really neat gun. From what I hear the original papers that show how to use in cartoon format are worth as much as the pistol Not many survived.

Here is one that sold at auction, complete with box and instructions for $4250

http://www.icollector.com/Excellent-...Shee_i10496885

I saw the one at Cabela's Reno a couple days ago $3995.00!

Wasn't there somebody making Liberator copies a few years ago????

Plus they haven't sold their over priced C&R Ruger Single Sixes that have been there 4 months either.

[desertjunkie760]

Im finding the $4000 range to be typical for one in great condition and with all of the original goodies, box, cartoon instructions, etc. The problem is finding out if they actually sell for that price.

[saki302]

I passed on one from an estate for around $1K-1.5K.

They're neat to play with, but should NOT be shot. I think their service life is around a dozen shots if I remember right.

They shouldn't be handled too much either, the metal rusts pretty easily.

-Dave

[desertjunkie760]

How long ago did you pass it on for? The price varies, but 1.5K seems about average. I have heard that they are not very durable. I didn't know it was only a dozen shots though. I don't know how I like the idea of shooting one, but it would be tempting to do at least once.

[saki302]

It was maybe a year or two ago.

I did get to play with it which was cool.

[CALI-gula]

I believe somebody made a bunch or replica ones a couple years back. You might have better luck finding one of those.

-Mb

True; but be careful because a lot of people pass them off as originals to get more money out of them. It's hard to tell the copy unless you know them very well, or you literally have an original in hand along with the copy to see the machining/stamping differences and tooling marks. Someone point out the differences to me some time back in person and you might be able to find something online showing the differences.

.