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**Lancear15** · 10-27-2008, 3:07 PM

Originally posted by MILLITIAof1

and as far as what you said above, a old qoute comes to mind.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
Abraham Lincoln

Actually Lincoln was quoting the Bible.

**Addax** · 10-27-2008, 3:11 PM

Originally posted by J_Rock

Actually the DI system is the more modern design, op-rod systems were what was used in the first auto loading designs

If I remember correctly, the DI design was originally conceived and tested in France in the early 1900's, but it was not until the late 30's or early 40's that it was utilized in several rifles like the French MAS Semi-Auto battle rifle, and I know it was used in the Swedish AG42 / Egyptian Hakim and Rashid.

**J_Rock** · 10-27-2008, 3:17 PM

Originally posted by Addax

If I remember correctly, the DI design was originally conceived and tested in France in the early 1900's, but it was not until the late 30's or early 40's that it was utilized in several rifles like the French MAS Semi-Auto battle rifle, and I know it was used in the Swedish AG42 / Egyptian Hakim and Rashid.

Correct, the EMT 1901 was the first DI gun but that was pretty much an experimental design. The first auto loader was built in 1885 I believe

**trinydex** · 10-27-2008, 3:55 PM

Originally posted by ar15barrels

As soon as the piston AR crowd stops trying to convince everyone that a gas piston is the better mousetrap, the DI crowd will stop explaining that Stoner has it right.

If you want a piston, get an AK.

i wouldn't say if you want a piston you should get an ak... you should get a piston ar... why not? especially if you wanna be the cool kid on the block with the car length gas system and stubby barrel muzzle device setup.

**Knight** · 10-27-2008, 3:57 PM

The Army did actually do a test on the M4 versus a few other piston designs:

M4 beaten by piston carbines

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2007/12/19/m4-beaten-by-piston-carbines/

The Army dust test results are out.As you can see above the M4 has fared very badly.Weapons officials at the Army Test and Evaluation Command at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Md., exposed Colt Defense LLC’s M4, along with the Heckler & Koch XM8, FNH USA’s Special Operations Forces Combat Assault Rifle and the H&K 416 to sandstorm conditions from late September to late November, firing 6,000 rounds through each test weapon.When the test was completed, ATEC officials found that the M4 performed “significantly worse” than the other three weapons, sources told Army Times.Officials tested 10 each of the four carbine models, firing a total of 60,000 rounds per model.

Keep in mind it was a test comparing gas pistons to a carbine-length DI system.

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I thought I'd post it as a discussion point.

**J_Rock** · 10-27-2008, 4:06 PM

instead of rehashing all the old arguments I made a thread DIRECT IMPINGEMENT, THE TRUTH to put them all in

warning, its kind of a long read

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