Good news for those under 21 in regards to the new ATF 4473 form

[tenpercentfirearms]

My ATF agent stated that she talked to corporate and they said lowers with buttstocks are rifles and under 21 can buy.

You still didn't tell us if it was a $900 lower or not. If so Irvington or CWS is on their "Buy them before he bans them" game!

[dlouie87]

wait....you have to be 21 to buy a stripped lower now? when was this started?

[leelaw]

Why don't you just ask around nicely to see if anyone local has an AR15 upper that they would lend to you to slap onto the lower, for the transfer to be considered a complete rifle?

[oogabooga]

Why don't you just ask around nicely to see if anyone local has an AR15 upper that they would lend to you to slap onto the lower, for the transfer to be considered a complete rifle?

Assuming the lower in question is determined to NOT be a rifle, wouldn't putting on an upper, to make it of rifle status, be considered "manufacturing" and you'd need to pay the FET? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I understand.

[rct442]

My ATF agent stated that she talked to corporate and they said lowers with buttstocks are rifles and under 21 can buy.

You still didn't tell us if it was a $900 lower or not. If so Irvington or CWS is on their "Buy them before he bans them" game!

I'm trying to determine if someone under 21 can purchase a complete lower assembly. I purchased a $450 LMT lower assembly, and would like to save money every time I want a OLL, because if I can't purchase a complete assembly, then I have to spend upwards of $900 for a complete rifle. I guess I learned my lesson this time.

[EOD Guy]

Even if the this new law hasn't taken into affect yet, can they can still restrict me for being under 21. Also, did your ATF guy put that in print/letter form, because I could use that to defend my position.

This is not a new law. It has been in effect since 1968 but hasn't really been enforced because of confusion as to what constitutes a rifle or shotgun where a receiver is concerned.

[dlouie87]

this sucks for me...i was going to order 2 lowers but i turn 21 in a month

[rct442]

I'm under 21, and was in Irvington Arms today to start the DROS for a complete LMT AR15 assembly w/ buttstock and pistol grip. They initially said the new ATF 4473 form prevented someone under 21 from purchasing a stripped AR15 lower receiver, but they wanted to confirm this from the ATF lady who was there today. Because it was a complete lower assembly w/ buttstock and pistol grip, she thought that it was considered a complete rifle. She said she was unfamiliar with this new law, so she would call her supervisor/expert to determine if a complete lower assembly was considered a complete rifle. Tomorrow I'm supposed to call and follow-up on the ATF's decision, and if they confirm her decision I'm going to be extremely relieved.

What really irritates me is that a stripped lower one month ago was only $200, but now I may have to pay over $900 just to buy a AR15 OLL. The only upside is I get a complete rifle for that price, but I lose the ability to customize it from the OLL up.

Alternatively, if the ATF denies my request; I will need to unload this OLL, because CWS doesn't accept returns. PM if you are interested in the SF Bay Area for a quote.

So I called Irvington Arms today at 1pm, and the ATF rep. said that since the complete lower assembly will start out as a rifle, it is considered a complete rifle for all legal purposes. This is good news for all of us under 21 who want to purchase OLLs, but don't want a complete rifle just yet!

[Linus]

this sucks for me...i was going to order 2 lowers but i turn 21 in a month

You don't have to be 21 to purchase a Lower.
I just started the dros process on one yesterday and I'm 20.

[rct442]

You don't have to be 21 to purchase a Lower.
I just started the dros process on one yesterday and I'm 20.

There must be only X amount of ATF agents in the country, and even less in CA. It's likely they won't get to your local FFL for days. It also matters if your OLLs were stripped or not, mine wasn't.

I wanted to start my DROS yesterday too, but the ATF rep. beat me to the punch. I couldn't start it until she gave the go ahead, so I was s*** out of luck. Fortunately I'm starting it tomorrow, so I only added 2 days + DROS for a total of 12 days, if you count yesterday/today as lost productivity days.

[shark92651]

You don't have to be 21 to purchase a Lower.
I just started the dros process on one yesterday and I'm 20.

I belive the new 4473 forms take effect on 11/15 but I imagine any shops that already have the new forms in hand and/or have discussed this with the ATF are enforcing the new rule now. Just because the dealer you are using didn't enfore the rule doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist.

[bohoki]

.

A receiver with a buttstock is forever considered a rifle, even if you remove the buttstock.

oh no then what is the ruling on the mech tech ccu

you put the butt stock on the 1911 frame it becomes a rifle

what if you put a stock and long barrel on a olympic arms pistol?

[Spiggy]

/ot

*squints* danny, is that you?

edit!

oh yea, and this is news to me :/ I've bought stuff while under 21 bunch of times...
the only thing that gets me is when they *magically* ask for two proofs of address for a long arm

[Shane916]

I belive the new 4473 forms take effect on 11/15 but I imagine any shops that already have the new forms in hand and/or have discussed this with the AFT are enforcing the new rule now. Just because the dealer you are using didn't enfore the rule doesn't mean the rule doesn't exist.

Those damn American Federation of Teachers

[PIRATE14]

Well they have a new form but there isn't any new regs for the A&D book....as far as I know....there is only PISTOL/REVOLVER/RIFLE/SHOTGUN that is req'd to be entered....no "other" that I know of......

If I say that a RCVR is a rifle it's a rifle.....but I am sure that new regs will follow shortly....