Evaluating Shooting range groupings

[eddyboy]

Hello

Been a long time lurker but wanted to post because I'm just starting to get a little more serious into shooting. Wanted to see if anyone could give me some useful tips or input on tightening up my groups a bit more. I know that there are no shortcuts and nothing replaces practice and focusing on the fundamentals. However it always helps having a more experienced eye look.

Noveske N4 Rifle 14.5 CHF
Geissele SSA Trigger
Vortex 1-6 Razor HD on Bobro Mount
Atlas PSR Bipod /w Larue Mount

100 yards 10 Shot Group each square 1/2 inch
XM193 55gr American Eagle


BlackHills 69Gr OTM 5.56
100 yards 2 10 Shot Groups 1/2 inch rings
1st Group on Right 2nd on Left


Thanks again for the advice
Ed

[russ69]

Carbine with a bi-pod? Well I would have to say that is better than average shooting. It's hard to tell exactly how good it might be without knowing more but carbines are not the best for accuracy. Not to be a smart *** but if you want to be a rifleman, you'll need a rifle not a carbine.

[eddyboy]

Thanks for your input, I realize that this setup is not going to be a tackdriver. But that doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.

[ziconceo]

You're groups are in semi circles so that would indicate to me that it can either be a combination of multiple problems or that's just the accuracy of your carbine. How many techniques do you use? Shoot while exhaling, sitting sideways instead of forward. Ect. If you could list what you do then we can better determine if it's more you or the carbine.

What can you do with a nice 22? If you can get 1/2 inch 10 shot groups at 100 yards like me, then the rifle is the problem not you....or the ammo...most likely....maybe. lol

[toddh]

If you are doing breath control and carefully pressing the trigger already, maybe look at at how you are shouldering the buttstock and gripping the handguard.
And with the AR platform, you can try other mods like hydraulic buffer spring to manage the recoil.

Rifle barrel twist and ammo weight could also play a small part too.

And practice, practice, practice.


.

[Sleighter]

It's odd that your 1st picture has the group up and to the right. Then on the center, your 1st group is left. And then your 3rd group is pretty well up and only slightly right of center.

You've bought up all the expensive gear, but I don't see a real pattern in your shooting to help you diagnose your problems. How quickly are you shooting? Are you pulling the trigger once you're on target, or are you slowly squeezing the trigger and making sure the reticle is on target during the whole press?

One realization that helped me on my trigger control is: you're not trying to capture a perfect moment and pull the trigger during that time. You're trying to maintain an accurate a hold as possible, and learn to lengthen the time the reticle is on target while you pull the trigger.

[captbilly]

Free floating barrel?

I am not familiar with your rifle so I don't know if it has a free float tube or a more conventional handguard. If the gun doesn't have a free coating barrel then your groups could be stringing from inconsistent pressure on the forend. A free floated barrel will not be effected nearly from the pressure on the for end because the pressure on the forend does not transfer to the barrel. Try to hold the rifle in Amway that applies as little force as possible to the forend/handguard, or apply the same force every time you fire.

More generally you will want to keep your grip on the rifle as consistent as possible so that any force on the rifle (including the force of the recoil) is always the same.

[eddyboy]

You're groups are in semi circles so that would indicate to me that it can either be a combination of multiple problems or that's just the accuracy of your carbine. How many techniques do you use? Shoot while exhaling, sitting sideways instead of forward. Ect. If you could list what you do then we can better determine if it's more you or the carbine.

What can you do with a nice 22? If you can get 1/2 inch 10 shot groups at 100 yards like me, then the rifle is the problem not you....or the ammo...most likely....maybe. lol

Hello ziconceo
I haven't read up on the different techniques but this is what I do.

1. I sit sideways with the stock into my shoulder with my left hand supporting under the stock into the shoulder.
2. I try and find a natural position where I'm not muscling the rifle onto target.
3. Close my eyes and open to see if I'm still on target.
4. Load the bipod slightly.
5. Try to control my breathing and hold when on target.
6. Take up travel in trigger.
7. Slowly squeeze the trigger straight back with the pad of my right index.

As of right now I don't have access to a nice 22 to try out.

Ed

[eddyboy]

It's odd that your 1st picture has the group up and to the right. Then on the center, your 1st group is left. And then your 3rd group is pretty well up and only slightly right of center.

You've bought up all the expensive gear, but I don't see a real pattern in your shooting to help you diagnose your problems. How quickly are you shooting? Are you pulling the trigger once you're on target, or are you slowly squeezing the trigger and making sure the reticle is on target during the whole press?

One realization that helped me on my trigger control is: you're not trying to capture a perfect moment and pull the trigger during that time. You're trying to maintain an accurate a hold as possible, and learn to lengthen the time the reticle is on target while you pull the trigger.

Hello Sleighter

Yeah sorry I forgot to mention that the POA was the same on both groups in the 1st pic but I had adjusted my scope 1 1/2 MOA left and 1 MOA down. The first group is the one on the right and the second on the left. I think I over compensated to left a bit. LOL

I actually spend quite a bit time setting up the shot, I think a bit to long because I start feeling alot fatigue by 7-10th shot. I'll take your advice though that is a great way of looking at trigger control.

[bfoosh006]

Bare in mind... XM193 / XM855 is not known for accuracy.... IMHO, your groups with it are as good as can be expected.

I will suggest some other ammo to try... ( at least for 100-200 yards. )

http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm/20-round-box-223-federal-american-50-grain-grey-tip-varmint-ammo-ae223gtv

http://www.jgsales.com/223-geco-ammo,-55gr-fmj-on-stripper-clips,-50rd-box-p-61956.html

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?groupid=2135&name=WOLF+GOLD+.223+55grn+FMJ

Those have proven to be quite accurate in my rifles. Those have proven to be quite accurate in my rifles, as far as inexpensive .223 / 5.56 goes.

[Fenr1r]

Your shooting isn't bad and your technique isn't either. Like bfoosh006 I also think your main hindrance is your ammo.

For any sort of precision shooting I always rely on handloads but my favorite test ammo for comparison is the Federal Gold Medal line. Yes you will pay quite a bit for it but this isn't plinking ammo. Once you get into reloading you will be able to make the same quality if not better quality ammo for much less.

Here are the two you can pick between.

69 Gr. http://www.federalpremium.com/produc...le.aspx?id=146

77 Gr. http://www.federalpremium.com/produc...le.aspx?id=147

When using the ammo as a comparison with your other ammo don't worry about hitting the bullseye. Use it as an aiming point to go back to every shot but if the rounds hit low and right by 3 inches then don't worry, just focus on the groups.

If you can get better groups with the Federal Gold Medal line then the issue isn't you or the rifle but the ammo and the best investment would be to look into loading your own ammo.

[Str8Shoot3r]

I'd recommend shooting three separate rifles. See if your shooting is the same across all three rifles. Change targets between each rifle and the see if your shot groupings are similar. If they are, you need to then tweak your technique.

One recommendation is to consistently squeeze the trigger until the shot breaks. Once the shot breaks, keep the trigger squeezed and slowly letup until you hear and feel the trigger reset. From that point start your squeeze again.

Also remember to breathe the entire time you're squeezing the trigger until almost at the breaking point, at which time you hold your breath for a second. Once the shot breaks, start inhaling again.

[eddyboy]

Sweet! Thanks for the advice. After reading some of your responses I started reading more into shooting techniques. It looks like I've not been holding my breath at the natural respiratory pause but on breath intake. I figured when people said "hold you breath" you do as if you were going swimming.

I don't think I've been following through with my trigger pull. I know i'm not thinking about it after the trigger breaks. I'll try to be more conscious of it.

I'll pick up some more match ammo at different grains and hopefully I find something my rifles likes more than BlackHills 69Gr OTM.

Also should I try switching steps 3 and 4 in my technique? Seems like that would make more sense since I will be apply some force to the rifle.

Thanks
Ed

[hunterb]

carbine or rifle course. or an appleseed even.