Re: Reliability comparison AK-47 vs Pump shotgun

[Thorax]

If you want reliable....get a single action revolver.

Drop it in mud, shoot it.
Run over it, shoot it.
Etc etc

BTW, those Swahilis in the pic up above, the reason they use AKs is because nothing else is available in the wilds of Africa.

Jeez, some peoples kids.

[Merc1138]

If you want reliable....get a single action revolver.

Drop it in mud, shoot it.
Run over it, shoot it.
Etc etc

BTW, those Swahilis in the pic up above, the reason they use AKs is because nothing else is available in the wilds of Africa.

Jeez, some peoples kids.

Pretty much. If the US government spent billions throwing together M16's to hand them over by the cargo container, to every tribal warlord on the planet who asked for them, for next to nothing, for 50 years... you'd see more than just AKs in bulk around the various dirtholes of the world.

Had the US adopted the AR-18, that might have actually been possible to do for a lot less than it would have cost to produce M-16's.

[sportDogger]

I doubt it but it's good to dream I guess the AK is easy to use, shoots any type of ammo designed for it, can be used as a rifle to shoot people or a hammer to build a house, and did I forget to mention.... they just work.

Pretty much. If the US government spent billions throwing together M16's to hand them over by the cargo container, to every tribal warlord on the planet who asked for them, for next to nothing, for 50 years... you'd see more than just AKs in bulk around the various dirtholes of the world.

Had the US adopted the AR-18, that might have actually been possible to do for a lot less than it would have cost to produce M-16's.

[geoint]

AKs and shotguns both can and do (eventually) fail. However, AKs generally fail way way WAY less often than any type of shotgun.

Lots of Americans view AKs as the weapon of the enemy or the weapon of the untrained barbarian. This is partially true as the platform was developed by the soviets and is easy and cheap to manufacture (and thus to buy) so you see lots of them in the hands of people who live in ****holes in the middle east and africa. Due to the nature of the AK, they are fairly reliable even in those horrible circumstances.

With that said, the gun doesnt make the shooter and most of them know next to nothing about weapon maintenance, tactics, trigger discipline...etc. so its no wonder that when Americans show up, we spank them pretty badly.
However, to blame the weapons for the failures of the shooters is ridiculous but very common. If those people had been armed with ARs, within 3 months theyd be clubbing each other with the rifles

PS: totally unrelated but Ive got a Romanian PAR-1 - a pump action AK-47. pretty fun gun to play with.

[Lexustech48]

I own a Mossberg 500 and love it. Got a Phoenix Tactical absorber stock on it and I can fire a full tube of magnum slugs like nothing.

That said, I have had a pin fail in the bolt/firing pin carrier after several spirited full tubes of military grade buckshot. The pin wouldn't let me rack the action and operate the shotgun. Granted, I was rather... abusive in the manner I was racking it. Ive since adjusted my pump strength while still getting the buckshot downrange as fast as I could.

AFAIK, an AK (when properly made) will fire in all sorts of weather and field conditions with little to no maintenance. Who knows about accuracy on a poorly maintained AK, but if I had to put money on it AK all the way for this comparison.

[Merc1138]

I doubt it but it's good to dream I guess the AK is easy to use, shoots any type of ammo designed for it, can be used as a rifle to shoot people or a hammer to build a house, and did I forget to mention.... they just work.

As if the AR-18 that I mentioned is somehow difficult to maintain and shoot?

Those people use AKs because they're all over the place, not because they have a choice. If the soviets had done the same thing with the SKS instead, you'd be seeing those everywhere in the hands of various third world people. Somali pirates are not going to the LGS, and picking the AK over FAL, M16, G3, etc. because they heard about how the AK was superior to everything else from some other pirates, while bickering about whether the russian made models are better than the romanian/bulgarian/etc.

[geoint]

As if the AR-18 that I mentioned is somehow difficult to maintain and shoot?

Those people use AKs because they're all over the place, not because they have a choice. If the soviets had done the same thing with the SKS instead, you'd be seeing those everywhere in the hands of various third world people. Somali pirates are not going to the LGS, and picking the AK over FAL, M16, G3, etc. because they heard about how the AK was superior to everything else from some other pirates, while bickering about whether the russian made models are better than the romanian/bulgarian/etc.

Thats the second time youve brought the AR-18 up. Who cares if its also an easy to maintain weapon? So are glocks

Nobody in this thread has said the AK was the best gun in the world, but it does work reliably. Would the AR-18 do that too? Probably. But the fact is they arent available. I bet SCARs would be pretty reliable too but guess what, I dont think they are terribly common in the third world either


But Ill admit, it was an interesting read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-18

As far as AKs being 'all over the place', whats wrong with with? Me thinks I smell an elitist attitude similar to 1911 snobs hating on glock owners

[Click Boom]

Give an ak to illeterate, drugged out Somali's and they can lay down 30 clip per magazine fire. Give a pump ****ty to the same, and they will get shot at distance by the the other somali's with ak's while they short-shuck and lay down 40 yards of protection.

It's not even close.

[REDdawn6]

Ak all day. Next question...

[sportDogger]

Since I've never seen an AR18 besides Youtube videos I'm not going to argue with what it could have happened. The point is the AR18 is almost unheard of. The AK is not the best rifle for every situation but when you can only have one rifle and need it to do multiple jobs the AK excels especially with its reliability.
As for this thread I've seen AR vs AK. Glock vs whatever popular pistol. Moss berg vs Remington vs Benelli. But never and I mean never AK vs Shotgun you did good on your originality OP.

As if the AR-18 that I mentioned is somehow difficult to maintain and shoot?

Those people use AKs because they're all over the place, not because they have a choice. If the soviets had done the same thing with the SKS instead, you'd be seeing those everywhere in the hands of various third world people. Somali pirates are not going to the LGS, and picking the AK over FAL, M16, G3, etc. because they heard about how the AK was superior to everything else from some other pirates, while bickering about whether the russian made models are better than the romanian/bulgarian/etc.

[Merc1138]

Thats the second time youve brought the AR-18 up. Who cares if its also an easy to maintain weapon? So are glocks

Nobody in this thread has said the AK was the best gun in the world, but it does work reliably. Would the AR-18 do that too? Probably. But the fact is they arent available. I bet SCARs would be pretty reliable too but guess what, I dont think they are terribly common in the third world either


But Ill admit, it was an interesting read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-18

As far as AKs being 'all over the place', whats wrong with with? Me thinks I smell an elitist attitude similar to 1911 snobs hating on glock owners

And you've missed the point.

AKs are not in every crevice of the third world because of their reliability compared to anything else. AKs are available because they were cheap to manufacturer, and the soviets produced millions of them to distribute to any third world village leader who asked, for 50 years.

Had any other government done the same with a cheap to manufacture rifle(like the AR-18), you'd see something besides the AK being so common. If the soviets had handed out any other rifle in the sort of quantity that they did the AK, you'd be seeing whatever rifle that would have been instead.

This isn't about being an elitist, it's about understanding why AKs are all over the place instead of grinning like a fanboy just because some somali pirates in a picture happen to have them, as if they made some decision and chose whatever they thought to be superior. The reality is that they picked up what was available, and there are reasons beyond the AK's fabled reliability(whether or not anyone in this thread agrees with those claims) that explain why the AK was available. Understanding that does not make me an elitist, but I do smell a fanboy who can't seem to accept reality.

[sportDogger]

If,,,,, if,,,,, if,,,,, if I was rich I'd own an island.... we get what you're saying but out of all the guns you mentioned are any truly as reliable as that cheap AK? Doesn't matter how it got there or why it got there the point is it works....

And you've missed the point.

AKs are not in every crevice of the third world because of their reliability compared to anything else. AKs are available because they were cheap to manufacturer, and the soviets produced millions of them to distribute to any third world village leader who asked, for 50 years.

Had any other government done the same with a cheap to manufacture rifle(like the AR-18), you'd see something besides the AK being so common. If the soviets had handed out any other rifle in the sort of quantity that they did the AK, you'd be seeing whatever rifle that would have been instead.

This isn't about being an elitist, it's about understanding why AKs are all over the place instead of grinning like a fanboy just because some somali pirates in a picture happen to have them, as if they made some decision and chose whatever they thought to be superior. The reality is that they picked up what was available, and there are reasons beyond the AK's fabled reliability(whether or not anyone in this thread agrees with those claims) that explain why the AK was available. Understanding that does not make me an elitist, but I do smell a fanboy who can't seem to accept reality.

[Merc1138]

If,,,,, if,,,,, if,,,,, if I was rich I'd own an island.... we get what you're saying but out of all the guns you mentioned are any truly as reliable as that cheap AK? Doesn't matter how it got there or why it got there the point is it works....

Actually, how it got there does matter, since that's how it got there(and why they have them). There's no "if" involved in that. Russians mass producing AKs by the millions for decades and shipping them to anyone wanting them is a fact(also don't forget the heaps of stuff sold off or looted after the fall of the USSR, that's enough to also make an impact in supply).

[sportDogger]

So how does it disclaim that AK's are more reliable gun for gun than any other mass produced rifle?

Actually, how it got there does matter, since that's how it got there(and why they have them). There's no "if" involved in that. Russians mass producing AKs by the millions for decades and shipping them to anyone wanting them is a fact(also don't forget the heaps of stuff sold off or looted after the fall of the USSR, that's enough to also make an impact in supply).

[Merc1138]

So how does it disclaim that AK's are more reliable gun for gun than any other mass produced rifle?

It doesn't. But there is a difference between claiming that these guys have AKs due to reliability(an assumption), and that they have AKs due to the russians passing them out like halloween candy(a fact).