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Ammo conundrum.

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  • eighteenninetytwo
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 1541

    Ammo conundrum.

    Took my AR with 20" barrel to the range today to zero with a new scope (Nikon) and had three different types of ammo with me so at the end I decided to compare. The barrel has a 1 - 10 or 1- 12 twist or something so I've been told that heavier ammo would be better with it.

    Left to right on both photos.I had 55 grain of no fixed manufacturer that I had left over, American Eagle 62 grain and Brown bear 62 grain. The results were interesting.

    i was shooting for these at the end so was a bit tired but the 55 grain was OK ish, 62 gr american Eagle ALL over the place and the Cheap n nasty Brown bear provided by FAR the best grouping BUT failed to fee about 2 in every ten rounds.
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  • #2
    eighteenninetytwo
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2008
    • 1541

    on another note - is Brown bear corrosive??

    Comment

    • #3
      iluvmycolt
      Veteran Member
      • May 2013
      • 3247

      How many yards were you sighting from 25 yds, 50yds, etc...?

      Comment

      • #4
        m16
        Veteran Member
        • Aug 2010
        • 2527

        If it's a 1:12" twist you should be shooting lighter projectiles.

        A faster twist rate is needed to stabilize longer bullets.
        Marine Raider Foundation

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        • #5
          AreWeFree
          Veteran Member
          • Jan 2013
          • 4558

          Originally posted by eighteenninetytwo
          on another note - is Brown bear corrosive??
          Not corrosive, just incredibly dirty.

          Double-check your barrel for markings, hopefully the twist rate is shown. In any event 62gr is fine for 1/12, although I only shoot 55gr.

          Your test for 55gr was already ruined since you didn't use the same manufacturer/batch of ammo.

          You didn't say distance or what your group size was, but anything around 2moa is acceptable. If your rifle likes cheaper ammo, then more power to you, save money and shoot that.

          Comment

          • #6
            AreWeFree
            Veteran Member
            • Jan 2013
            • 4558

            Originally posted by eighteenninetytwo
            Took my AR with 20" barrel to the range today to zero with a new scope (Nikon) and had three different types of ammo with me so at the end I decided to compare. The barrel has a 1 - 10 or 1- 12 twist or something so I've been told that heavier ammo would be better with it.

            Left to right on both photos.I had 55 grain of no fixed manufacturer that I had left over, American Eagle 62 grain and Brown bear 62 grain. The results were interesting.

            i was shooting for these at the end so was a bit tired but the 55 grain was OK ish, 62 gr american Eagle ALL over the place and the Cheap n nasty Brown bear provided by FAR the best grouping BUT failed to fee about 2 in every ten rounds.
            Brown Bear is pretty well known for being underpowered, so if that's what you will regularly shoot then you may need to tune your recoil system since you likely don't have an adjustable gas block.

            Comment

            • #7
              eighteenninetytwo
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2008
              • 1541

              Thank you for the tips. I was shooting at 50 yards. Brown bear group was about an inch. I must have got my .223s mixed up. The twist on this is 1:7, that is why I was told to use a heavier projectile. So if testing for how different grain ammo shoots one should use the same manufacture and level of ammo if possible I assume.

              Comment

              • #8
                russ69
                Calguns Addict
                • Nov 2009
                • 9348

                Originally posted by eighteenninetytwo
                Thank you for the tips. I was shooting at 50 yards...
                I was going to say acceptable for 100 yards but there is more in your gun than that. You'll need handloads for the next level.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  AreWeFree
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jan 2013
                  • 4558

                  Originally posted by eighteenninetytwo
                  Thank you for the tips. I was shooting at 50 yards. Brown bear group was about an inch. I must have got my .223s mixed up. The twist on this is 1:7, that is why I was told to use a heavier projectile. So if testing for how different grain ammo shoots one should use the same manufacture and level of ammo if possible I assume.
                  All barrels are different, so what works for me may not work for you. I have an expensive rifle that will not shoot any 55gr I try accurately. It's 4moa+, while my other rifle will be 1.5 - 2moa, both 1/7 twist.

                  Mil spec and plinking ammo is generally 2 - 3moa and I'm happy with 2moa groups. Everyone else on Calguns can shoot much better groups than me, but I'm ok with 2 - 3" groups at 100yards with cheap ammo.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    kcheung2
                    Veteran Member
                    • Aug 2012
                    • 4387

                    what was the ammo for the upper right target?
                    ---------------------
                    "There is no "best." If there was, everyone here would own that one, and no other." - DSB

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                    • #11
                      eighteenninetytwo
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 1541

                      Brown bear 62gr

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        triggs75
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 1835

                        Also how were you supporting your rifle when shooting? Bipod, bags, front and rear?

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          vliberatore
                          CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                          CGN Contributor
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 10055

                          Originally posted by AreWeFree
                          Mil spec and plinking ammo is generally 2 - 3moa and I'm happy with 2moa groups. Everyone else on Calguns can shoot much better groups than me, but I'm ok with 2 - 3" groups at 100yards with cheap ammo.
                          Bingo. If you shoot 2 MOA ammo, you shouldn't expect it to group like a bolt rifle shooting handloads.
                          Originally posted by fighterpilot562
                          Damn it man! We could have got drunk, called a taxi and drop by Kest house with a mega phone.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            as_rocketman
                            CGSSA Leader
                            • Jan 2011
                            • 3057

                            In my opinion your data are inconclusive. Two five-round groups, some with flyers (that might be called, and might not), just isn't enough. I can't rule out shooter error on more than half of those targets.

                            Part of the reason I say that is that I don't see a consistent point-of-impact between like ammo on the first and second group of targets. Maybe you adjusted sights, maybe you held over / Kentucky windage etc., but I just don't know. So I have to assume the aggregate ten-round group is the superposition of both targets, and in that case, the group sizes are similar.

                            More data would be my suggestion. Don't be afraid to move the target closer. Also log your shots, call your shots, and if possible get an observer to watch you as you take them. Try to identify and eliminate flyers.

                            With a decent 20" 1/7 barrel I would expect 2 MOA from American Eagle, probably no better than that. But it serves as a useful control. If you aren't shooting close to that, it's probably your technique, not the ammo, opening up the groups.
                            Riflemen Needed.

                            Ask me about Appleseed! Send a PM or see me in the Appleseed subforum.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Click Boom
                              Calguns Addict
                              • Nov 2013
                              • 6955

                              Originally posted by AreWeFree
                              All barrels are different, so what works for me may not work for you. I have an expensive rifle that will not shoot any 55gr I try accurately. It's 4moa+, while my other rifle will be 1.5 - 2moa, both 1/7 twist.

                              Mil spec and plinking ammo is generally 2 - 3moa and I'm happy with 2moa groups. Everyone else on Calguns can shoot much better groups than me, but I'm ok with 2 - 3" groups at 100yards with cheap ammo.
                              No they can't, not with cheap ammo. They will say they can though, and maybe post 1 pic a year of a nice group they shot at 75 yards and say it was 100 lol

                              If OP is shooting 2moa with cheap russian 20cents a round ammo, just stick to that, unless you really care about getting tiny groups. I don't really shoot groups anymore, except when sighting in a scope maybe. Now I just bang steel. If Im shooting a 3inch gong 90% of the time at 100 yards, or 200 yards with certain rifles, i know that for all practical intents and purposes, my rifle is up to the task. If you want to work up an accurate load, there is nothing at all wrong with that. But for general shooting, practicing real world stuff, gongs are where it's at. I also don't really like shooting from very nice bench rests, because it's not realistic training to me. I like shooting offhand, or with proper sling technique, or prone, kneeling, sitting, on a shooting table on a backpack, on a rock, on a rock with backpack, off the hood of my car, off the roof of my car, etc. guess im just a wannnabe operator like that.
                              Last edited by Click Boom; 11-02-2014, 9:03 PM.

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