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Aimpoint vs. Eotech

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  • #31
    edittman1
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 535

    Originally posted by brando
    We need to sticky this topic at some point as it is about the most common optic debate by far. For the record, here's my take:

    I used the old Aimpoint 1000 back in the day, mounted on top of the carry handle of my CAR-15. Great tool at the time. Later around 2000 I used the CompML, which was a nice update on a proven optic. For close-in work, red dot sights just own, especially if you train specifically with them.

    The first sign of trouble was engaging 200-400m targets. The 4MOA dot was just too large and often obscured the target which equated to a wider pattern. I did tests where I went back to iron sights and the same engagements resulted in much better performance, however I was much slower acquiring my sights up close and therefore slower engaging. That's the beauty of an RDS - fast acquisition of the sight at close range.

    At one point around 2001 I tried an EOTech on recommendation from a buddy who shoots 50,000+ rounds a year. Not only was my sight acquisition as fast, if not faster, but I found that for those 200-400m engagements I could be VERY precise. As a test, I taped a cigarette vertically to a target stand. Starting at 10m I tried hitting it with the Aimpoint CompML and then the EOTech, moving out to 35m each time the cigarette was hit. The only hits I got were using the EOTech. So I was sold on it.

    While in Iraq I found the EOTech excellent for a variety of roles, but was particularly fond of its holographic nature which didn't require a consistent or proper cheeck/stockweld. I was able to shoot from some weird position and make hits as long as I could see the reticle. However, the biggest problem I was having with it was the battery life. Switching to the AA model was a big help, but still it didn't have the battery life I had hoped for, so I couldn't just leave it on. On top of that, since I had to constantly turn it on and off I found it awkward where the buttons were placed, the sequence required to turn them off as well as the lack of a "memory" for the brightness setting. Rolling out of the wire it took a few seconds to get my EOTech up while an Aimpoint would have taken about a second at most.

    Later, another problem started showing up in my EOTechs: a few times they shut-off during mid-recoil. Very VERY bad, though it made for good BUIS training

    Last year I picked up an Aimpoint Micro T-1 and everything changed for me. I still LOVE my EOTechs, but I have lost faith in them (which really sucks). The T-1 is lighter and more compact than the EOTech and it has a much smaller dot. I did the cigarette drill again and the Micro did just fine but it has the added benefit of incredible battery life. I just leave it on, that's all.

    Now if I could have a T-1 with an EOTech 65/1 reticle I'd be a happy, happy man.
    You've got to be kidding me? You're criteria is hitting a cigarette at 35m? I'd like to see video of this with EITHER optic.

    My undestanding is that the idea of the Aimpoint is to acquire and engage an object quickly and within reasonable accuracy. I don't know how big your target at 200-400 meters was, but if it was at least 1'x1' I'd feel very confident with an Aimpoint. In fact, I hit my 4"x4" shoot n C every time at 100 yards. All I do is cover the black circle with the dot and it's a given.

    The Comp M4 also has the ability to adjust the size of the red-dot, so I can make it smaller if I want to improve precision of shots.

    The one thing I don't understand about the EOTech, is if it can be shot from any eye angle and still produce the same result. From what I can tell on my Aimpoint, wherever the dot is, is where the rifle is shooting. I like that flexibility to be honest.

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    • #32
      BlackRifle313
      Junior Member
      • Jul 2008
      • 73

      does anyone know a gun store that has aimpoint comp m4s that I could take a look at? never actually seen one in person. I'm in the El Cerrito/bay area.

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      • #33
        NiteQwill
        Calguns Addict
        • Dec 2007
        • 6368

        Originally posted by tenbrook
        I am getting ready to order an aimpoint ML3 2 MOA. How can I tell if its the older or newer version? Are there different Model #'s?

        Thanks

        I was going to order from these guys......here is the link......Is this the newer or older version?

        http://www.manventureoutpost.com/out...oducts_id=8125
        The new ML3 should have the longer battery life and black rubber covering standard.

        Originally posted by edittman1
        You've got to be kidding me? You're criteria is hitting a cigarette at 35m? I'd like to see video of this with EITHER optic.

        My undestanding is that the idea of the Aimpoint is to acquire and engage an object quickly and within reasonable accuracy. I don't know how big your target at 200-400 meters was, but if it was at least 1'x1' I'd feel very confident with an Aimpoint. In fact, I hit my 4"x4" shoot n C every time at 100 yards. All I do is cover the black circle with the dot and it's a given.

        The Comp M4 also has the ability to adjust the size of the red-dot, so I can make it smaller if I want to improve precision of shots.

        The one thing I don't understand about the EOTech, is if it can be shot from any eye angle and still produce the same result. From what I can tell on my Aimpoint, wherever the dot is, is where the rifle is shooting. I like that flexibility to be honest.
        I think what brando was getting at was that each optic has different criteria for use. Overall, the Aimpoint is recommended for durability and reliability, the two most important criteria for a battle rifle.

        In choosing, if you're life depends on it, it's better to select a 4 MOA optic that is 99.9% reliable than a 1 MOA optic that is give-or-take-maybe-on-a-full-moon-when-the-wolves-are-hiding.

        The fate of the wounded rest in the hands of the ones who apply the first dressing.

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        • #34
          StraightShooter
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2007
          • 2189

          Just curious, why do you want the m4? Th m2 or ml2 is an excellent optic with outstanding battery life. If you arent going to be killing people or using nightvision i would say you could save a heck of a lot of money by going with an m2/ml2.

          my .02 FWIW

          Not to mention that for 3 gun, neither the aimpoint nor the eotech would be my first choice.
          Last edited by StraightShooter; 09-22-2008, 11:24 PM.

          Brandon M.

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          • #35
            Pryde
            Veteran Member
            • Oct 2005
            • 2506

            Originally posted by edittman1

            The one thing I don't understand about the EOTech, is if it can be shot from any eye angle and still produce the same result. From what I can tell on my Aimpoint, wherever the dot is, is where the rifle is shooting. I like that flexibility to be honest.
            I think you have Brando confused.

            You're talking about parallax, Brando is talking about the fact that the EOtech allows you to see the dot at a wider angle due to the shorter length of the tube. You can have a really crappy stockweld and still see the dot in the window on the EOtech, you need to pretty close to inline of the bore to see the aimpoint dot. Your head can not even be on the stock and you will still be likely to see the reticle due to the wider field of view and shallower tube.

            This really only matters if you are shooting from positions like rollover prone or shooting under a vehicle where it may be difficult to acquire a decent stockweld. If you are shooting from traditional positions, none of this should matter.

            Some people feel the M4 is better because it can take AAs.
            Last edited by Pryde; 09-22-2008, 11:42 PM.

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            • #36
              Rich776
              Junior Member
              • Mar 2008
              • 37

              I have the M4s and it is very accurate and reliable. Haven't had a Eotech to compare it to yet.
              Springfield Armory XD-9

              AR-15

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              • #37
                Toolbox X
                Veteran Member
                • Jan 2005
                • 2602

                IMHO, the answer to this question is simple. It comes down to personal preference. Both optics are fantastic. Personally I like the look and controls of the Aimpoint a lot more than the EOTech.

                Also, I really do NOT like the look of the Aimpoint M4. There is something about it that just doesn't flow. The features are cool, but the look just bothers me and the cost is way to high.

                My favorite Aimpoint is the ML3 with 2MOA dot, and LaRue mount. Make sure you figure out the correct height of the mount. For instance, a SOPMOD stock lowers my line of sight a 1/4" or so compared to a normal telescoping stock. I need a higher mount for my Aimpoint if I use a normal stock and I need a lower mount if I use my SOPMOD. The A.R.M.S. mount has risers you can put in to adjust height. Also, the Aimpoint M4 does come with a mount which is a huge plus, and I believe it is height adjustable as well.

                The battery life of the Aimpoint ML3 series is amazing. You can literally never turn it off and at 80% brightness power it should run for almost 6 years. That being said, getting extra Aimpoint batteries has always been an expensive pain the *** for me. Until I found them on Ebay super cheap. Just search for "Duracell DL1/3N" and you can get them for less than $2 each. I bought 10 and they are the real deal. Much better than $5-8 each like you pay at a tactical store.

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                • #38
                  dilligaffrn
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2005
                  • 635

                  Aimpoint!

                  Nuff said.
                  What Is A Veteran?

                  A "Veteran" -- whether active duty, discharged, retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to, and including his or her life."

                  USN 1986-1997

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                  • #39
                    brando
                    Veteran Member
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 3694

                    Originally posted by Pryde
                    You're talking about parallax, Brando is talking about the fact that the EOtech allows you to see the dot at a wider angle due to the shorter length of the tube.
                    It's more than just the wider FOV, it's also the nature of a holographic reticle. In the Aimpoint it's a reflection, but a hologram has the advantage of maintaining position regardless of your viewing angle of incidence. It's a minor thing in comparison, but I'm telling you, you'd be surprised out useful it was.

                    On the Comp M4, that's good you can adjust the dot. My post was telling a story from my experience over a roughly 15 year period and at the time the most advanced Aimpoint I was using was a CompML and later the T-1.
                    --Brando

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                    • #40
                      edittman1
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2006
                      • 535

                      Fair enough. I haven't really shot the EOTech enough to be super knowledgable on the differences between the two. But the Aimpoint does everything I need it to and works well out to around 400 yards. Granted it is ideal from 1-200 yards. Acog takes over bragging rights for 200-600 yard targets. I'd really like to try one of the ACOG 4x's with the Dr Optic on top. I wonder if that combo is a nice hybrid setup for 1-600 yards. The Dr Optic sure is mounted high up there..

                      I am going to try shooting a cig though. That sounds fun.

                      Also, if you look on AR15.com deals are easy to find for the Comp M4. My friend just picked one up for $500 shipped NIB with mount.
                      Last edited by edittman1; 09-23-2008, 10:58 AM.

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                      • #41
                        brando
                        Veteran Member
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 3694

                        I've got a T-1, which I mentioned in my initial post is my current favorite. I just prefer the EOTech reticle. Not trying to have a competition here, but I've got a lot of years behind both sights and wanted to offer my take on it. FWIW, the ACOG from my perspective (the issue NSN model) is really best used in a fixed defensive position where you're almost exclusively engaging at distance and can make good use of the BDC reticle. The Doctor or JPoint combo is neat, but delicate. Bang up against a wall or an 1114 door and it's busted. LaRue, however, makes a version that is shielded.
                        Last edited by brando; 09-23-2008, 11:03 AM. Reason: typos
                        --Brando

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                        • #42
                          whatever
                          Member
                          • Sep 2002
                          • 281

                          I like the Aimpoint. The EO tech is too bulky.

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                          • #43
                            aileron
                            Veteran Member
                            • Oct 2006
                            • 3272

                            Originally posted by NiteQwill

                            The guys pictured are a combo of some Ranger, Airforce (CTTs), and SF folk in case anyone is wondering.
                            Can you tell me what kind of rifle the second guy is using?
                            Look at the tyranny of party -- at what is called party allegiance, party loyalty -- a snare invented by designing men for selfish purposes -- and which turns voters into chattles, slaves, rabbits, and all the while their masters, and they themselves are shouting rubbish about liberty, independence, freedom of opinion, freedom of speech, honestly unconscious of the fantastic contradiction... Mark Twain

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                            • #44
                              huck
                              Senior Member
                              CGN Contributor
                              • Mar 2008
                              • 972

                              What about the Zeiss Z-point? Where does it fit in this conversation?
                              Shop at Amazon.com and support Calguns Foundation with every purchase

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                              • #45
                                brando
                                Veteran Member
                                • Feb 2006
                                • 3694

                                The guy in front has a Mk46 and the guy on the right has an EBR M14.
                                --Brando

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