Under Stabilized Rounds?

[penguinofsleep]

This just popped into my mind:

Since people often try to get rifle rounds that tumble, flip, fragment, expand, etc. upon impact for defense, how come no one is using an under-stabilized round for a HD rifle?

The rounds would already come out tumbling. Granted it may not happen every time, but I would imagine that would still be better than hoping the round does more than make a pencil hole upon impact? Will still be accurate enough inside of 25 yards for man sized targets indoors - which again I imagine would address 90%+ of peoples needs indoors. Would be likely to reduce chances of over-penetration on a missed shot. A few other possible benefits while most potential drawbacks seem unlikely to manifest themselves and even if this didn't work reliably or consistently, it doesn't seem like you'd lose anything.

ex: shoot 55-75 grain rounds out of a 16" 1 in 14 twist barrel. Round is likely to come out tumbling and hence likely to have more potential to incapacitate vs a small pencil hole round that just zips through.

Am I completely wrong here or is this a possibly good idea if it meets someone's needs? edit: also not something i'd do or am thinking of doing, just wondering for info's sake.

[Cody]

2 words. Poor penetration.

[Merc1138]

Pencil holes after zipping through(not sure where you're getting the idea of pencil holes from)?

Stop shooting ball ammo for self defense maybe? You're not the military, shoot whatever you want/need to get the job done. Yes, soft point .223/5.56 does exist, and it doesn't just zip through things leaving a pencil sized cavity. You wouldn't shoot ball 9mm, .40, .45, etc. out of a pistol for defense(unless you absolutely had to I guess), so I don't see why you'd do that for a rifle. Also, as Cody quite simply put it, why would I intentionally gimp my rifle so it has a chance to under penetrate?

[russ69]

Am I completely wrong here or is this a possibly good idea if it meets someone's needs?

Yes. An unstablized round can vaporize in less than 25 yards.

[CoopsDad]

People TRY to get rifle bullets to tumble and flip? Expand, yeah; I can see that. Fragment, maybe. Tumble and flip- never heard of that. Why not make a barrel that shoots the bullet sideways and be done with it?

[kyle.]

Bullet stabilization wont matter to the target if COM hits are made. That should be the priority.

Obviously hollow point/soft tip exists for maximum wound channel, and frangible exists for collateral damage/risk mitigation.

[chead]

There's no way a tumbling bullet is going to be more effective (lethal) than something with massive expansion in flesh and a tumbling bullet is going to be worthless against armor.

[TruEdge]

I just couldn't justify using a rifle especially an ar for HD. If you have neighbors close it could easily be bad news if one of those rounds zipped through a wall or window and into a neighbors place. I like to stick with a shotgun or handgun it's safer in my opinion. Everyone has their views on it though.

[kyle.]

I like to stick with a shotgun it's safer in my opinion. Everyone has their views on it though.

I prefer a handgun for defensive purposes..

[penguinofsleep]

yes, i realize it wouldn't penetrate as much, but wouldn't it still be enough either way to cause the necessary damage that results in incapacitation?

i also realize hp/sp rounds exist, but even those aren't going to expand/perform 100% of the time (maybe b/c .224 is just a bit too small to reliably expand into something much bigger?). plus they aren't always available. ball ammo is typically available to some degree or another.

for tumbling/yaw, i'm thinking 5.45, 7.62x39, some 223/556 rounds.

with all of this being said, it's not something I would personally do for various reasons, but just wondering about an idea that entered my mind.

[Merc1138]

yes, i realize it wouldn't penetrate as much, but wouldn't it still be enough either way to cause the necessary damage that results in incapacitation?

i also realize hp/sp rounds exist, but even those aren't going to expand/perform 100% of the time (maybe b/c .224 is just a bit too small to reliably expand into something much bigger?). plus they aren't always available. ball ammo is typically available to some degree or another.

for tumbling/yaw, i'm thinking 5.45, 7.62x39, some 223/556 rounds.

with all of this being said, it's not something I would personally do for various reasons, but just wondering about an idea that entered my mind.

It sounds like a terrible idea. BTHP or softpoint 5.56 is not hard to come by. The fact is, that any round that is capable of penetrating the human body and cause enough damage to incapacitate someone, is going to also go through residential walls. It's simply unavoidable.

[saki302]

A tumbling .223 round would be devastating up close to an unarmored target.

Probably accurate enough out to 25 yards. Yep, I said 25 YARDS.

My uncle has a full auto Krinkov in NC. The first 5.45 barrel he had on there wouldn't stabilize the bullets- some were missing paper at 50-100 yards, and you could see the sideways holes in the target.

I'm sure it would do impressive soft tissue damage, but if you want to turn your rifle into a shotgun, better just start with a shotgun.

[TomReloaded]

If you had no option except FMJ ammo, it would work... but thats kind of a weird/unrealistic scenario.

I thought about this too, but since theres HP .223 ammo, it doesnt make sense.

Even at the worst times, I didnt have much trouble finding 223 hunting/SD ammo. Its expensive as hell. The shelves cleared of range stuff, but the high end expanding ammo was generally available. Not many people hoarding $2/rd ammo. Its definitely around. AR's are good choices for the home, but its worth using the right ammo.