New to Piston ARs

[JaeFern]

I'm by no means new to ARs, but I am a first time piston AR owner. I saw a fellow Calgunner selling a new Spikes Piston Upper (the actual Piston Upper made in collaboration with AA) and since they were discontinued years ago I jumped on it. I tossed it on a Spikes Zombie Lower I had sitting in the safe, threw on some of that new Stealth Gray Magpul furniture (which I think looks really slick BTW) and boom... My first Piston AR. I've got a Vortex SPARC II on hold at a LGS for $160 I'll pick up when I get the chance.

I figured that maintenance will generally be the same except that the BCG and upper should be significantly cleaner and cooler and that I could actually clean the piston system (gas block, piston, gas plug). I've done some research both here and on AR15.com but haven't really found any conclusive answers.
My first question is, do you lube the gas piston, block and plug? I've read both that you need to lube everything and also read that you SHOULD NOT Lube that portion because the piston system but gunk up pretty quickly. What's the consensus from those of you who actually run piston systems?
My second question is this... With the BCG being cleaner and cooler on a piston system, should dry lube be OK on the BCG and Upper components? I ran my own experiment with a couple of my ARs a few years back. One AR I used regular lube and the other I used the OTIS Dry Lube. I used them both equally and about 8 months and 9000 rounds later, I saw no more wear on any particular AR than the other. Both ran flawlessly and I liked how the dry lube didn't attract dust or dirt and was still relatively easier to clean (although only marginally cleaner at the end of a session). Any of you piston guys run dry lube? Any of you actually have bad experiences?
And lastly, are there any known issues with the Spikes Piston Uppers or AA piston uppers I should know about? Any quirks or things I should pay attention to?
Oh one more question. Are the piston bolts all spring loaded? I noticed that the actual bolt does lock in battery, but with the upper not installed, the bolt sticks out a bit and I have to hold it in while putting the upper into the lower. When the upper is installed in the lower, the buffer and spring put and hold the BCG where it needs to be. I'll be taking it out this weekend when I visit family in Pismo Beach and function check/sight it in.
Thanks in advance for your help.

[tjlayzer]

I actually have a similiar piston upper like yours. It is very rock solid and reliable. For cleaning - Piston components , they will get some carbon fouling at the plug and block and that will have to be done from time to time, but all depends on much you shoot. You can probably not clean it for a couple range sessions and it will still run normal. The piston rod stays mostly clean , but you only need to clean it with a soft rag , no actual lube necessary. The BCG only needs very minimal lube (light coat)and you can run it dry, but I give mine slight lube in the friction points. You can wipe the BCG with a cloth for most cleanings. I dont clean mine every time , but once you've used your rifle a few times, you can gauge how much cleaning it needs or doesnt need yet. As for your spring question, yes that is normal. All the AA Piston BCGs come with spring loaded bolt to allow for better lock time. I took mine out as have others with AA pistons , as its not absolutely necessary but it all depends on ammo used and buffer weights as well. I used the Spikes ST T2 with XM 193 and its been flawless. You should try some different scenarios to see if leaving the spring in the bolt shows a difference for you or not, but again it all depends on your ammo ( maybe better for weak ammo).

[JaeFern]

I actually have a similiar piston upper like yours. It is very rock solid and reliable. For cleaning - Piston components , they will get some carbon fouling at the plug and block and that will have to be done from time to time, but all depends on much you shoot. You can probably not clean it for a couple range sessions and it will still run normal. The piston rod stays mostly clean , but you only need to clean it with a soft rag , no actual lube necessary. The BCG only needs very minimal lube (light coat)and you can run it dry, but I give mine slight lube in the friction points. You can wipe the BCG with a cloth for most cleanings. I dont clean mine every time , but once you've used your rifle a few times, you can gauge how much cleaning it needs or doesnt need yet. As for your spring question, yes that is normal. All the AA Piston BCGs come with spring loaded bolt to allow for better lock time. I took mine out as have others with AA pistons , as its not absolutely necessary but it all depends on ammo used and buffer weights as well. I used the Spikes ST T2 with XM 193 and its been flawless. You should try some different scenarios to see if leaving the spring in the bolt shows a difference for you or not, but again it all depends on your ammo ( maybe better for weak ammo).

Thanks for the reply. So no lube necessary in the gas block and plug. I like to clean my guns after every session anyways, unless I know I'm going right back out the next day.
I tend to shoot whatever ammo I can get my hands on so I'll probably leave that bolt spring installed. A majority of the ammo I plan on shooting this weekend is TulAmmo anyways so if it eats it with no problems I'll leave the spring in there.
Thanks for the heads up
Ever try dry lube?

[Arnelcheeze]

I dont have the AA piston system but i am running a Stag 8 piston.
after i clean the piston cup and piston i usually coat it with a shot of rem oil then wipe it off. I wouldnt use dry lube on any AR. here is a test i did with 3400 rounds without cleaning.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=514840

[3lsmc7]

I don't remember the last time I cleaned my AA gun and I usually shoot Wolf/Tula (same thing?) out of it.

What I usually do is wipe off the bolt/carrier and then liberally spray it with Ballistol. While it is soaking I remove the piston rod and just wipe down/scrape any carbon. Then spray that with Ballistol and let it soak, while I wipe down the BCG. After all is said and done I wipe everything down with a microfiber towel. Use a bore snake down the barrel and call it a day. YMMV

[tjlayzer]

No dry lube for me. I just use MPro 7 to clean the carbon stuff off , and a light coating of Rem Oil on the BCG. The BCG really does stay pretty clean for a long time though with a piston.

[JaeFern]

Well, it sound like business as usual then.
Everyone who said no to dry lube so far has given no reason why. Anyone care to elaborate on why no to dry lube?

[Oceanbob]

Encouraging replies.....good information.

I just received an Osprey Kit....gonna build a piston AR and see for myself.
Waiting for some parts from the cerakote man. Probably next week.

...

[3lsmc7]

^^^ was really thinking of switching my AA kit for that just because it looks way lighter.

Love how they put that sticker there just because it has a M16 BCG.

[whlgun]

Oceanbob,

Please update us on the osprey kit. I am thinking about trying one out on a midlength BCM and comparing it to my DI BCM.

[Oceanbob]

^^^ was really thinking of switching my AA kit for that just because it looks way lighter.

Love how they put that sticker there just because it has a M16 BCG.

Yeah..kinda weird about how they think a normal BCG is a prohibited item in California....Arrggg.

I got this from MidwayUSA. Most of these companies that won't sell to California have a few low information desk jockeys making poor business decisions.

Oceanbob,

Please update us on the osprey kit. I am thinking about trying one out on a midlength BCM and comparing it to my DI BCM.

Sure will! I am building from scratch and will post photos and a range report.

I did check this kit out as much as practical on the net. Seems like a great kit.

[3lsmc7]

Yeah..kinda weird about how they think a normal BCG is a prohibited item in California....Arrggg.

I got this from MidwayUSA. Most of these companies that won't sell to California have a few low information desk jockeys making poor business decisions.

I can't remember if it was on here or another forum but the member called/emailed the company and they pretty much said their lawyers advised them to not bother due to CA gun laws. A resident of CA could get it from anywhere else but Osprey (or whoever the company that makes them) as you have just mentioned.

He even mentioned that the BCG was not prohibited but they wouldn't budge. Sucks!!

But yes the kit looks like a great alternative to the AA and if I had done more research, when I was putting mine together; I probably would've went with the Osprey over the AA just because it seemed lighter.

[JaeFern]

Seems lighter or is lighter?

[3lsmc7]

I want to say seems because I have yet to handle a rifle with an osprey kit. But if you look at what's included in the osprey vs AA kit (the railed GB, not the low profile GB), the osprey kit should be lighter since it will re-use the GB/FSB where as the AA kit uses it's own version.

AA kit


Osprey Kit

[weespeed]

I have both the Osprey and AA kits.

I have more AA builds because they are cheaper and easy to get. But for ease of instal the Osprey kit wins hands down.

If you have a fsb, it'll literally take you about 15 minutes to instal the kit.

The only positive on the AA kit is if you run suppressed, but here in CA, good luck.

I had my Osprey kit on my side charger and had no issues. Only reason I took it apart is because I am doing anew build with a free float rail and low profile gas block. Either kit is gtg, but I like the ease of the Osprey kit.

To the OP: on my MR556 and my piston builds, I just spray the bcg with clp and wipe it clean. I'll but a drop of EWL-2000 on the roller cam pin and put some TW25B where the bcg contacts the upper.

I take the piston rod out wipe it with some clp and put some TW25B where the rod goes through the upper.

As for the gas plugs and or piston cups I just put a thin amount of lube on it.
AA instructions will tell you this. I just spray with CLP clean and wipe off.
Osprey kit says to just clean and wipe with little to no lube.

My MR556 manual - Apply a medium coat of CLP to gas piston and operating rod. Medium meaning, "A layer of CLP visible to the eye and can be spread with the fingers."

You really don't need to clean your piston rifles that much. Basically CLP or Ballistol and wipe down and you're good to go. Do a detail clean after several thousand rounds.

Hope that helps.