Stuck in a semi-auto rifle limbo

[FromTheGrave]

Hey guys new member here.

To make a long story short, I want to discuss some options with some people who love both the AK47 and AR platform and possible some more. Definitely don't want to start a pissing match between the 2.

I've always loved the AK platform and pretty much wanted one since I was a kid. Never got around to aquiring one. Prefer an AK with the classic look (non-"tactical") and with wood furniture. Now the only thing, since i'm now in the position to pick one up that's shying me away is that I would prefer something in a more widely available (in the U.S.) caliber and probably leaning towards a NATO caliber.

Then there's the AR. Caliber is right. Playing with "Legos for men" sounds fun, but from what I hear the reliability (under stress) is not in the same league as the AK/gas piston design. I don't know if I look forward to the maintenance, although I understand all firearms need to be maintained and I probably wouldn't be shooting all too often. That makes me slightly interested in the sig 556. Am I right in the 556 being a AR with a gas piston. Or am I totally wrong?

This brings me to kicking around another caliber that I'm interested in. The .308. The AR10, the FAL both interest me. Of course the FAL seems harder to aquire in CA, and more expensive. And, not really as much of a well rounded SHTF weapon as the previous. Which is always a consideration.

What other options am I missing?

The reason I feel like im in limbo is because I do want to pick something up in the near future, but I'm not a money tree. It will probably be the only rifle I pick up for the next year or so atleast. I don't want to make a choice that I'll regret. I just can't make a decision, once I get set on something I see or read something that makes me lean in the other direction.

So you know where I'm coming from, I'll probably get out and shoot it 3 or 4 times a month.

Help me out guys!!!!

[ElvenSoul]

Have you ever fired either?

That is something you might want to knock off you to do list. Fire both at a range and see which you like better.

I'm sure some CG'ers can hook you up for some beer and ammo.

[Rosereader]

First off, FAL > AR 10

But if you want a NATO caliber and you like the Kalashnikov system, why not just go with a VEPR or Saiga in .308 Winchester? There are a number of 5.56 AK options as well, but the only one worth the time is probably going to be the Galil. And not the ones cobbled together by Century.

In addition, an AK can be made into as much of a lego kit as an AR. If you want rails/keymod it's done and the system is popular enough that billions of aftermarket accessories are available ranging from excellent to crap.



Buuuttt if you want the piston system and less typical, the vz.58 (made in 7.62x39mm, trust me it's easy to find 7.62x39mm...) or the Mini-14 (a 5.56 gun). If you go for the mini get the heavy barrel, as the original diameter barrels heat up quickly and start to string shots out a bit.


And in the AR-10/FAL camp is the M-14, or one of the variants designed solely for civilian sales (cheaper than a military refurb, most likely) is the M1A, or even it's predecessor the M1 Garand loaded for plentiful and hard-hitting 30-06, which is a common domestic caliber.

[Mossy Man]

I own both AK and AR pattern rifles, and an M1A in the .308 world.

I'll ask you a few questions and then based on them I will suggest something.

1. How important is customizing your rifle?
2. What kind of optics are you considering for your rifle? Are you planning on shooting irons, no power dots, magnified optics?
3. What's your intended purpose for this rifle?

Some things to consider:

1. 7.62x39, while not American, is still very widely available and inexpensive compared to .223. It's also a beefier round and more capable in a multi-purpose role.
2. The AR gas system is not as fragile or accurate as you may think, depending on components.
3. The AK rifle system is not as robust or inaccurate as you may think, depending on components.
4. Shooting .308 3-4 times a week will be EXPENSIVE. More expensive than the consideration of cost of the actual rifle.

[FromTheGrave]

Have you ever fired either?

That is something you might want to knock off you to do list. Fire both at a range and see which you like better.

I'm sure some CG'ers can hook you up for some beer and ammo.

Yes. I've fired all three. I enjoy shooting all of them. Can't really say I've enjoyed one more than the other. Although the last time I shot a .308 in a semi-automatic was a galil probably a little over 20 years ago.

[Trenchfoot]

I would get an M1A before an FAL or an AR in .308. The only reason I have for investing in a .308 AR build when I should have just gotten an M1A in the first place was that I couldn't afford an M1A at the time and we were staring down the barrel of a complete ban on semi-auto, magazine fed rifles. So I ended up buying a .308 receiver set.

Had I been clairvoyant, I would have just saved the money and gotten an M1A later, as it's looking like my .308 build will end up costing me close to twice what an M1A would have.

[barrage]

...That makes me slightly interested in the sig 556. Am I right in the 556 being a AR with a gas piston. Or am I totally wrong?

Gas pistons are the bee's knees if you're not worried about maximizing your full auto rate of fire (I'm going to go out on a limb and bet you're not). I personally despise the DI design of typical AR's for the sole fact that they **** carbon all over the action and it's actually by design, which makes cleaning them a pain in the ***.

This brings me to kicking around another caliber that I'm interested in. The .308. The AR10, the FAL both interest me. Of course the FAL seems harder to aquire in CA, and more expensive.

Seems like you might really like a SCAR17.

...And, not really as much of a well rounded SHTF weapon as the previous. Which is always a consideration.

What other options am I missing?

...

An M1A.

I'm not a money tree...

Forget I mentioned the SCAR and M1A then. A vanilla AR-15 (no piston) will give you a foundation to build on, will be reliable, and won't cost $2k unless you try real hard.

[FromTheGrave]

I own both AK and AR pattern rifles, and an M1A in the .308 world.

I'll ask you a few questions and then based on them I will suggest something.

1. How important is customizing your rifle?
2. What kind of optics are you considering for your rifle? Are you planning on shooting irons, no power dots, magnified optics?
3. What's your intended purpose for this rifle?

Some things to consider:

1. 7.62x39, while not American, is still very widely available and inexpensive compared to .223. It's also a beefier round and more capable in a multi-purpose role.
2. The AR gas system is not as fragile or accurate as you may think, depending on components.
3. The AK rifle system is not as robust or inaccurate as you may think, depending on components.

Customization on an AR platform would be great and fun I'm sure. Although from the jump I would like to get something I wouldn't be running to customize off the bat. As far as the AK, I foresee keeping it classic.

As far as optics. Iron sights for now until a need or yearning pushes me to upgrade. For sure understand the positives of an AR platform in those regards.

As far as purposing. As I said probably take it out to the range a few times a month. Would like it to cover SHTF well and be an extreme home defense gun if needed. Although it definitely woulld not be a primary home defense weapon as I have a couple shotguns and a handgun.

[FromTheGrave]

I should add I'de like to keep it around 1000 +/-. No problem with "used" but not beaten. That should help narrow it down. I didn't really put much thought into the price of ammo for .308 and do notice that most .308 rifles cost a lot more than the 5.56 and 7.62.

Thanks for the suggestions and taking the time guys!!

[Mossy Man]

Customization on an AR platform would be great and fun I'm sure. Although from the jump I would like to get something I wouldn't be running to customize off the bat. As far as the AK, I foresee keeping it classic.

As far as optics. Iron sights for now until a need or yearning pushes me to upgrade. For sure understand the positives of an AR platform in those regards.

As far as purposing. As I said probably take it out to the range a few times a month. Would like it to cover SHTF well and be an extreme home defense gun if needed. Although it definitely woulld not be a primary home defense weapon as I have a couple shotguns and a handgun.

I think a WASR10 is probably the rifle for you.

It's not the best cartridge for HD, but it's cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, reliable and will get you started in the rifle world. These can be had for around $650. Or, if you don't mind the bastardization of the Saiga, you can go even cheaper at around $499 for a real Russian AK variant.

AR15s can be expensive and you get into the tier vs tier debate which nobody on this forum can prove to you which is best for you.

Anything .308 will be expensive to buy and feed.

Oh, forgot....are you able to shoot magnetic at your local ranges? That makes a difference. If not, then definitely go for an AR.

[barrage]

I should add I'de like to keep it around 1000 +/-. No problem with "used" but not beaten. That should help narrow it down. I didn't really put much thought into the price of ammo for .308 and do notice that most .308 rifles cost a lot more than the 5.56 and 7.62.

Thanks for the suggestions and taking the time guys!!

.308 is also 7.62.

AK = 7.62x39
308 ~ 7.62x51 (there are some relatively minor differences in chamber pressure, but for most intents and purposes they're the same)

[FromTheGrave]

Oh, forgot....are you able to shoot magnetic at your local ranges? That makes a difference. If not, then definitely go for an AR.

Good question. I'm not sure. Does that mean steel? I would most often be shooting at the Concord range (if anyone can help with that info).

[FromTheGrave]

.308 is also 7.62.

AK = 7.62x39
308 ~ 7.62x51 (there are some relatively minor differences in chamber pressure, but for most intents and purposes they're the same)

haha busted! I knew that. But, you know what I meant

[ElvenSoul]

Ummm for just over a 1000 you could get both the AR and the AK!

[Rosereader]

.308 is also 7.62.

AK = 7.62x39
308 ~ 7.62x51 (there are some relatively minor differences in chamber pressure, but for most intents and purposes they're the same)

-Err, no. For one the bullet weight (<150 gr vs ~130 gr) and diameter are off. AK's us a .311 diameter projectile versus a .308. And the .308 is faster.


At the end of the day .308 winchester offers nearly double the kinetic energy of the 7.62x39mm cartridge. Very different, but built for different uses.