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Getting the best of both worlds (AR15 & M1A)

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  • mt417
    Member
    • Sep 2013
    • 280

    Getting the best of both worlds (AR15 & M1A)

    So I live far out there in the mountains on a couple hundred acres with mixtures of heavy forests and brush, steep and rocky hills, with some open ranges that span 400-2000 yards. On top of the very rough terrain there's the microclimate where it can go from sunny and calm to windy and rain at anytime. Cold with heavy rain and snow in the winter, 100+ and dry in the summer. Moving around can get pretty intense and requires a lot of energy.

    My current AR setup is a Colt milspec upper with a 16" 1/7 chrome lined barrel on a Franklin Armory HSC 15 lower. LaRue 7.0 free floating handguard, hefty Command Arms Acessories stock with buttpad, Hogue grip and Mag forward grip, standard Harris bipod and standard flash hider. I shoot Lake City 62gr M855 and Hornady TAP 75gr OTM and currently am using the tritium powered 4x ACOG with red chevron 5.56 BDC. Really I've found that even though it's great for lightweight I just don't find it effective outside 300 yards. I think the ACOG was a waste to put on it and would probably be better off using my EOtech EXPS3-0 and get the G33 3x magnifier for it. Now, I could throw my Leupold Mark 4 LRT 4.5-14x Duplex reticle scope on there and have it zero'd to reach out but the effectiveness of the 5.56 comes into question just as it did for the military up in the mountains of Afghanistan making them bring out the M14s. I have a friend who was going to get an $8000 5.56 SPR setup and the builder says I don't need 7.62 that the 5.56 will go 800m and effectively put down a bad guy and he supposedly knows cause he trains snipers and has X confirmed kills, but I don't trust the guy.

    I've had my AR for about 4 years now, but 2 years ago I purchased my M1A Scout. It came with match parts, Ultimak M8 top rail, ARMS M21 mount (no forward mount), SEI USCG muzzle break and the standard stock. I then put a JAE G2 stock on it with the thumbwheel adjust. cheekpiece, lower and side rails, barrel tensioner, etc. Got a pivoting bipod and angled forward grip. For optics I use a Leupold Mark 4 LRT 8.5-25x with the illuminated TMR. I shoot the Federal Gold 175gr SMK. She's heavy but the recoil is actually comparable to the AR so I can use it effectively at close ranges.

    My strategy is that my AR is all I need for general hunting and defense up to 300 yards or so. The M1A serves as a more DMR/precision role obviously. I've lugged them both around and while the AR is more comfortable to move with, the M1A is more comfortable to shoot and it is more effective at all ranges due to the 7.62, it can cut through the brush and handle the winds. I even bought my EOtech EXPS3-0 just for the M1A as an alternate to the Leupold so that I could use it for CQB. For this it may have been better to get an EBR style setup with a pistol grip and stock, but at the time I didn't want to use a BB. So I really am leaning towards getting one of the modernized high end AR10s cause it's much easier to use and clean, with no limits on what you can add to it.

    Before I found out about the ban I was actually thinking about selling both my AR and M1A to fund an AR10 build. When I found out about the ban I was going to keep them and just buy one. Now that there won't be a ban, I still want to keep them and still want to buy one.

    For the passed few weeks I've been set on the LMT MWSE. Specifically because of the monolithic upper and straight gas tube, as well as being selected by the Brits for a DMR over the SCAR, HK, etc (DI > Piston eh?). Also it appeals to me that it has the potential to utilize multiple calibers through changing the barrel. Besides 260 and 308 I see custom barrels for the MWS that allow it to utilize 243, 300, 338 and 6.5 that might be available from LMT in the future.



    However now I'm really wondering if I should go with another heavy DMR when I already have the M1A, when there's the slightly lighter LaRue OBR and much lighter PredaTAR types. I feel either one (LMT and LaRue) will outdo both my AR and M1A, but the LMT might prove to be more advantageous than the LaRue if I can utilize all those calibers with one system. The LMT will run me around $3500 NIB and there's a PredaTAR on here for $6800 that's also NIB. The PredaTAR might be the best of both worlds being lighter than M1A/OBR/MWS yet packing the same punch, but that's a huge difference in price. I will be hiking with it and also carrying it in the G4 Operator's scabbard, but I'm already used to the heavy JAE M1A.

    I would just continue with my current setup having two separate rifles, but I really want to be able to train on one sysem for all conditions. Yeah I can take my AR and M1A through both practical and precision courses at Front Sight but my intuition is providing this vision of one ultimate system and have the other two to fall back on.

    What did you do in your situation and what would you do in mine? Am I over-analyzing the situation? I'm going to start abusing my Front Sight diamond membership and maybe try out some other places, this is mainly for defense/SHTF/zombies and general hunting. Since I'm young I might get into competition and contemplate going through a police academy, so I really want a consolidated, all purpose setup.
  • #2
    kalieracer
    Veteran Member
    • May 2008
    • 2987

    the 300 barrel is for the AR-15 platform MRP not MWS

    "Gawd, asks a qustion, gets two good answers, denies/ still doesn't get it.

    This is the kinda person that shouldn't be building things- go store bought.
    Bill Wiese"

    Comment

    • #3
      acaligunner
      Calguns Addict
      • Oct 2008
      • 6439

      mt417;

      So I live far out there in the mountains on a couple hundred acres with mixtures of heavy forests and brush, steep and rocky hills, with some open ranges that span 400-2000 yards. On top of the very rough terrain there's the microclimate where it can go from sunny and calm to windy and rain at anytime. Cold with heavy rain and snow in the winter, 100+ and dry in the summer. Moving around can get pretty intense and requires a lot of energy.
      What's going on around your ranch that you feel the need to 'reach' out and take care of business? If I may ask ?


      My current AR setup is a Colt milspec upper with a 16" 1/7 chrome lined barrel on a Franklin Armory HSC 15 lower. LaRue 7.0 free floating handguard, hefty Command Arms Acessories stock with buttpad, Hogue grip and Mag forward grip, standard Harris bipod and standard flash hider. I shoot Lake City 62gr M855 and Hornady TAP 75gr OTM and currently am using the tritium powered 4x ACOG with red chevron 5.56 BDC. Really I've found that even though it's great for lightweight I just don't find it effective outside 300 yards. I think the ACOG was a waste to put on it and would probably be better off using my EOtech EXPS3-0 and get the G33 3x magnifier for it. Now, I could throw my Leupold Mark 4 LRT 4.5-14x Duplex reticle scope on there and have it zero'd to reach out but the effectiveness of the 5.56 comes into question just as it did for the military up in the mountains of Afghanistan making them bring out the M14s. I have a friend who was going to get an $8000 5.56 SPR setup and the builder says I don't need 7.62 that the 5.56 will go 800m and effectively put down a bad guy and he supposedly knows cause he trains snipers and has X confirmed kills, but I don't trust the guy.

      Dang, 8,000 dollars. WOW.

      OK, what are you shooting at 300 yards? Vermin, trespassers? Explain.

      Another though would be, have you looked into a 6.5 grendel conversion ?


      I've had my AR for about 4 years now, but 2 years ago I purchased my M1A Scout. It came with match parts, Ultimak M8 top rail, ARMS M21 mount (no forward mount), SEI USCG muzzle break and the standard stock. I then put a JAE G2 stock on it with the thumbwheel adjust. cheekpiece, lower and side rails, barrel tensioner, etc. Got a pivoting bipod and angled forward grip. For optics I use a Leupold Mark 4 LRT 8.5-25x with the illuminated TMR. I shoot the Federal Gold 175gr SMK. She's heavy but the recoil is actually comparable to the AR so I can use it effectively at close ranges.

      So, are you looking for a long range BR, or what? That M1A must be heavy. Why not just use a Vltor/OEM stock ( which is probably lighter weight ) and top it off with a Lupy 1.5x4 power scope with red dot option ( or something simular, or you could top the M1A with a scope of your choice and a red dot sight for use under 100yrds?


      My strategy is that my AR is all I need for general hunting and defense up to 300 yards or so. The M1A serves as a more DMR/precision role obviously. I've lugged them both around and while the AR is more comfortable to move with, the M1A is more comfortable to shoot and it is more effective at all ranges due to the 7.62, it can cut through the brush and handle the winds. I even bought my EOtech EXPS3-0 just for the M1A as an alternate to the Leupold so that I could use it for CQB. For this it may have been better to get an EBR style setup with a pistol grip and stock, but at the time I didn't want to use a BB. So I really am leaning towards getting one of the modernized high end AR10s cause it's much easier to use and clean, with no limits on what you can add to it.

      6.5 Grendel, will get you a more heavier round and range, and all you need is the conversion. Or M1A as explained above, but then again the 223 has served you well for over 3 yrs...

      Before I found out about the ban I was actually thinking about selling both my AR and M1A to fund an AR10 build. When I found out about the ban I was going to keep them and just buy one. Now that there won't be a ban, I still want to keep them and still want to buy one.

      For the passed few weeks I've been set on the LMT MWSE. Specifically because of the monolithic upper and straight gas tube, as well as being selected by the Brits for a DMR over the SCAR, HK, etc (DI > Piston eh?). Also it appeals to me that it has the potential to utilize multiple calibers through changing the barrel. Besides 260 and 308 I see custom barrels for the MWS that allow it to utilize 243, 300, 338 and 6.5 that might be available from LMT in the future.
      Considering the different weather conditions, and terrain, wouldn't a piston system work better for your needs, I see a lot of good in the AK, M1A, SCAR systems for the types of conditions you face.





      However now I'm really wondering if I should go with another heavy DMR when I already have the M1A, when there's the slightly lighter LaRue OBR and much lighter PredaTAR types.

      Isn't the waiting time for a LaRue over a years time? Are you willing to wait that long.


      I feel either one (LMT and LaRue) will outdo both my AR and M1A, but the LMT might prove to be more advantageous than the LaRue if I can utilize all those calibers with one system. The LMT will run me around $3500 NIB and there's a PredaTAR on here for $6800 that's also NIB. The PredaTAR might be the best of both worlds being lighter than M1A/OBR/MWS yet packing the same punch, but that's a huge difference in price. I will be hiking with it and also carrying it in the G4 Operator's scabbard, but I'm already used to the heavy JAE M1A.

      Cut the weight of the M1A, and/or go buy a bunch of ammo and head to a school that will advance your training.

      An expensive rifle is nice, but you must know how to get the full potential out of that rifle, and it's accessories. You could buy a 6,800 dollar rifle, or head out and go get training with the gear you have, and then buy a whole bunch of gear and ammo for the same price.


      I would just continue with my current setup having two separate rifles, but I really want to be able to train on one sysem for all conditions. Yeah I can take my AR and M1A through both practical and precision courses at Front Sight but my intuition is providing this vision of one ultimate system and have the other two to fall back on.

      Sounds like you may need back-up. There are no ultimate systems, there is gear, and you. You are the deciding overall factor. A SF soldier with an enfield 303 rifle is more dangerous than a man with no training and an expensive rifle.

      Man has fought and killed just fine, from the jungles of Viet Nam, to the mountains of Afghanistan, their training and the will to survive is what gave them an edge. The rifles and gear, may have helped, but it's the man behind the weapon, and his training working together.


      What did you do in your situation and what would you do in mine? Am I over-analyzing the situation? I'm going to start abusing my Front Sight diamond membership and maybe try out some other places, this is mainly for defense/SHTF/zombies and general hunting. Since I'm young I might get into competition and contemplate going through a police academy, so I really want a consolidated, all purpose setup.
      If there was 1 ultimate sytem, a lot of people would be using only 1 rifle/system.

      Only you can tell the rifle/gear you need for your conditions. We don't know what you are shooting at, or defending yourself from.

      There are a lot of great guns/calibers out there, but you need to choose what will work for you and yours.

      Go out and do more shooting, and more training, and pick what you feel comfortable with, then train some more.

      Good luck.
      Last edited by acaligunner; 10-13-2013, 7:53 PM.
      Vida Loca Homes

      Comment

      • #4
        cabinetguy
        Release the Cabinets!
        CGN Contributor - Lifetime
        • Sep 2010
        • 12659

        Since you say you want just one system so you can train on it, sell the M1A and get something on the AR-10 platform. The MWS can swap calibers, but good luck finding the barrels. Your 6.5 and 300blk are for an ar-15 platform.

        Comment

        • #5
          mt417
          Member
          • Sep 2013
          • 280

          What's going on around your ranch that you feel the need to 'reach' out and take care of business? If I may ask ?
          Well the bears and coyotes have torn up some cows, dogs and sheep, and every year the drunks are causing more ruckus, tweakers are tweakin harder and the growers are pushing it to the limit. Not that I'm going to reach out and touch these parties since at those ranges they aren't an immediate threat to my life. I guess I don't plan on "reaching out and taking care of business" in that context per se, I just consider shooting 400, 500, 600 yards to be reaching out.

          Another though would be, have you looked into a 6.5 grendel conversion ? So, are you looking for a long range BR, or what? That M1A must be heavy. Why not just use a Vltor/OEM stock ( which is probably lighter weight )
          I've noticed the 6.5 and have considered getting the other stock, but I guess I'm really just caught up with the sales hype of how "cool" those LaRue's and LMT's are with newest and unique technology, bells and whistles, and the prestige of the companies and those who use their products. I'm content with what I have, I just want to see what others think about whether these new systems are truely worth it.

          Isn't the waiting time for a LaRue over a years time? Are you willing to wait that long. A SF soldier with an enfield 303 rifle is more dangerous than a man with no training and an expensive rifle.
          I think that's why the one offered on the forums here is so expensive. Yeah lol I will look into other M1A stocks again but man those AR10s are sexy but I guess that doesn't mean they are totally superior and if so do I really NEED it? Yup I'm caught up in our consumer culture.

          Comment

          • #6
            Heretodaygonetomorrow
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2011
            • 582

            How about a SCAR MK20?

            Design for rapid barrel and caliber changes, and you can get different length barrels.

            Comment

            • #7
              acaligunner
              Calguns Addict
              • Oct 2008
              • 6439

              Mt 417, I thank you for the feedback.

              On one hand the 556 is good because it's light, and you can carry more ammo. On the other hand, the round can be a little light for all intents and purposes.

              The LMT/ LaRue are all good, but they are heavy, and the mags, and ammo are a little heavy. Which means you may not be able to carry all the ammo that you may need when you decide to venture out.

              If I where in you r situation I would buy a SCAR 17s, if you don't think the M1A can do the job.

              The Scar is light, the recoil is said to be much softer than other 308 systems, the accuracy is suppose to be under/ or at 1 moa, even with the standard combat barrel, and is a proven system. The rifle and mags are a little expensive tho.

              I would love to pick one up, but I have a family- and if the old lady saw me spend 4 Grand on a rifle- well she might pull my eyes out.

              I would have to sell 2 rifles to get 1 rifle, but since I love my arms, I don't think I need to do that know, maybe one day. Be good.
              Vida Loca Homes

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