Well I have a problem with my Saiga conversion...need some help please

[joe blow]

Hi guys,

I bought the IZ240 chambered in 5.45 and purchased all the items from CSS and every piece needed to convert it to the AK74 (FSB, GB etc etc). Well tonight I decided to mess with it and figured I'd try the bullet guide just for fitment purposes. I have a flat trunnion so I ordered the stuff I needed. Well the BG sticks out a bit and the bolt ramp hits the BG and does not allow the rifle to fully chamber or the bolt to mate with the barrel.

So I figured the BG was wrong and decided to remove it and put rounds in the SAIGA mag and the Circle 30 rd mag I also have and cycle the weapon (non firing) to see how it cycled without the BG in place. It appears the bolt rubs on the rounds and is very rough in action. The circle mag barely feeds with double feeds constantly and the SAIGA mag won't even cycle.....I bent one of the bullets when it jammed it into another round. I thought WTF?!??!

I have no idea what is going on and I am wondering if someone can help me. I am no expert but it seems like the RAMP on the bolt is too long or the bolt is wrong.....or I am FKD up or who knows....I have enclosed some photos showing the fitment of the BG, the bolt hitting the BG. Just FYI the BG is shoved in as far as it will go into the trunnion to the bottom of the barrel.


Any advice is appreciated

Thank you
Joe

[kalieracer]

Its the wrong guide and you can't use the guide with the Saiga mags unless you mod them. Also depending on the gun the trunnion might need to be modded. Where are you located?

[joe blow]

Its the wrong guide- It is the one on the CSS site for this caliber.

and you can't use the guide with the Saiga mags unless you mod them.- Understood but remember the BG is NOT INSTALLED and the stock SAIGA mag WILL NOT even cycle rounds in the stock gun.....period without the bolt grinding the top of the casings while they are trying to feed and chamber.

Also depending on the gun the trunnion might need to be modded. What exactly needs to be done....I thought this was a cut and dry conversion?

Where are you located?

I am in the IE

Thanks
Joe

[kalieracer]

Well it really depends on what parts that factory used to make your gun and when it was produced. Most times it is. But there is a bit of home work to be done. Like do you have a round or flat trunnion so you get the correct guide, some guides are better than others. I have had several guns that used AKM trunnions that needed a bit of milling to take AK-74 mags correctly. Also the mag catch needs to be filed down. I recommend taking to Randall at AR15barrels.com he is also ar15barrels on here to have him fix it up.



http://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-545R.html . Bullet guide

[/B] I am in the IE

Thanks
Joe

[0351USMC]

I had same problem with 5.45 CSS BG.
So bought Dinzag BG and it solved problem.

[joe blow]

I appreciate all the help. the part that worries me is the friggin rifle wont even cycle rounds dry with the stock SAIGA 10 rd mag. I cycle the bolt manually and it is very rough action to where it stops and is jammed ontop of the casing.....that is what I don't get.

[joe blow]

Well it really depends on what parts that factory used to make your gun and when it was produced. Most times it is. But there is a bit of home work to be done. Like do you have a round or flat trunnion so you get the correct guide, some guides are better than others. I have had several guns that used AKM trunnions that needed a bit of milling to take AK-74 mags correctly. Also the mag catch needs to be filed down. I recommend taking to Randall at AR15barrels.com he is also ar15barrels on here to have him fix it up.






http://www.k-var.com/shop/AK-545R.html . Bullet guide

As far as I can tell it looks like a flat trunnion to me

[Mossy Man]

Are you trying to cycle 223s by mistake?

[joe blow]

Are you trying to cycle 223s by mistake?

I wish my friend.....it is the 5.45 round for sure. I am kinda frustrated more so that the rifle wont even cycle in stock form with a stock mag.....something has got to be wrong with the gun or mismatched parts....I don't know

[Mossy Man]

Has it ever cycled properly, or just after you drilled the hole for the BG?

[kalieracer]

let me ask you are you pulling the bolt back and just letting it go or are you slowly riding it forward?

I appreciate all the help. the part that worries me is the friggin rifle wont even cycle rounds dry with the stock SAIGA 10 rd mag. I cycle the bolt manually and it is very rough action to where it stops and is jammed ontop of the casing.....that is what I don't get.

[joe blow]

Has it ever cycled properly, or just after you drilled the hole for the BG?

The gun has never been fired, I just picked it up a week ago....the BG was just placed in there without drilling just out of curiosity for fitment purposes and I wanted to cycle it just to check it out....but the fit is tight enough it stays put and being a flat trunnion it stays well put. I don't know but to me something is fkd since the gun in stock form won't even cycle rounds when I manually cycle the action with a full magazine in place as my AK47 does....and my ar etc etc

[joe blow]

let me ask you are you pulling the bolt back and just letting it go or are you slowly riding it forward?

I was controlling the bolt action back and forth in a smooth motion....I am not familiar with ak's at all just ar's but on my 47 I used the same movement to cycle rounds after I did some stuff to it and it cycled flawlessly....that is an OPAP by the way.

[kalieracer]

That generally doesn't work well with AK's or AR's they need the mechanical force of the spring to load the round in the chamber. It's also a new gun and needs to be broken in. The park has not smoothed out on the rails from being fired and oiled. Second on many AK's the bolt carrier will encounter friction over the hammer spring, that is normal. Do you have any snap caps, I never recommend messing with the gun with live rounds when doing function tests . I bet if you just let the carrier go it will work just fine.

I was controlling the bolt action back and forth in a smooth motion....I am not familiar with ak's at all just ar's but on my 47 I used the same movement to cycle rounds after I did some stuff to it and it cycled flawlessly....that is an OPAP by the way.

[joe blow]

That generally doesn't work well with AK's or AR's they need the mechanical force of the spring to load the round in the chamber. It's also a new gun and needs to be broken in. The park has not smoothed out on the rails from being fired and oiled. Second on many AK's the bolt carrier will encounter friction over the hammer spring, that is normal. Do you have any snap caps, I never recommend messing with the gun with live rounds when doing function tests . I bet if you just let the carrier go it will work just fine.

I am definitely going to try it in the morning. My son was running around the garage and regardless of how careful I am I don't like doing that stuff with anyone around.

I did go through the OPAP really well....disassemble, clean and oil nicely ....the SAIGA....not at all. Straight out of the box and onto the bench to dry fit the BG and start the conversion plans.....I hope youre right.


On another note.....the BG has got to be wrong or something is up....it contacts the bolt so that is surely a problem.