Question about Saiga .223

[All Nav]

Hi all-
First time here, and glad I found this excellent source of info. I am in the market for the above rifle, I'd like to use my local FFL to do the transfer, as opposed to having to drive over 400 mi. to do the paperwork and then pickup from another FFL. Trouble is, he cannot find this rifle listed in the software the FFLs use to do the online portion of the paperwork. Can anyone tell me how this gun is listed, or if it is not, how FFLs describe it on the forms? My guy is willing to do the transfer, but since he makes no money at all on transfers, he is not willing to do all the legwork that running down this info would take. Thanks for any help you can offer.

[tophatjones]

Only pistols that have met the safety testing standards are on the list. There are no long guns on the online DROS list. If you are referring to the Kasler list of prohibited AK/AR, the only Saiga on the list is one imported by "Kalashnikov USA", so a Saiga rifle imported by anyone else, including the most recent "Russian American Armory", would be fine. The dealer would just DROS the rifle like any other long gun. If you are buying a modified Saiga (with any of the characteristics listed under PC section 12276.1, SB 23, ie pistol grip, flash hider, etc...), you must either remove all of those features before import or you must have someone fix a maglock onto the rifle before import. Good luck and Welcome to Calguns!

[All Nav]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, it is imported by Russian American Armory, and because it lacks any identification as an AK, it is legal in Calif. I want to pass useful info onto my FFL, so when you say that "the dealer would just DROS the rifle like any other long gun", how can I convince him he is not doing paperwork on a illegal gun? Like any FFL, he is not willing to do anything that might even begin to lose him his license. Sorry to be so dim on this, but up til now I've only purchased firearms that are clearly legal in Calif. Thanks.

[tophatjones]

I could be wrong, but I believe everything you need is in my first reply. Btw, the RAA Saiga is legal but not because it doesn't have any AK markings. It is legal because it is not an AW as defined by the Roberti Roos list, the Kasler AK/AR list, nor does (an unmodified version) have the generic AW characteristics. Here is some reading to get you up to date.

This directly applies to your situation:

http://www.calguns.net/copmemo2.pdf

This should be required reading for anyone in Ca interested in OLLs:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=56818

[JeffM]

When dealing with FFLs its best to keep conversation on a 3rd grade level:

"There is no list of legal long guns.

There is only a list of illegal long guns.

RAA Saiga = not on the illegal list

Not on the illegal list = good to go"

[All Nav]

Excellent. I'll see if I can make this easy for him, and hopefully he will just do it. Thanks to you both for the clarification. Wish me luck...

[Matt C]

Where are you in CA that you are 400 miles from an OLL friendly dealer??!?!

Hi all-
First time here, and glad I found this excellent source of info. I am in the market for the above rifle, I'd like to use my local FFL to do the transfer, as opposed to having to drive over 400 mi. to do the paperwork and then pickup from another FFL. Trouble is, he cannot find this rifle listed in the software the FFLs use to do the online portion of the paperwork. Can anyone tell me how this gun is listed, or if it is not, how FFLs describe it on the forms? My guy is willing to do the transfer, but since he makes no money at all on transfers, he is not willing to do all the legwork that running down this info would take. Thanks for any help you can offer.

[tophatjones]

Good luck to you! Btw, if you're in Santa Maria, I know of an FFL who'd likely do the transfer (for really cheap too!)

[All Nav]

Actually, I am in the Monterey area, so I was prepared to drive up to Santa Clara to do this thing. Santa Maria is a bit farther than I'd like to go. My main guy is in Salinas, so with any luck, I'll only spend $25 on gas, not $50!! Thanks again.

[dccali79]

Buy one from coldwarshooters and have them send it to Robert Ashmore in Monterey. He will DROS it for you, and he is on there FFL list. He DROSed an NDS3 receiver I bought from CWS last year.

[JeffM]

with any luck, I'll only spend $25 on gas, not $50!!

Better go soon!

[All Nav]

Where are you in CA that you are 400 miles from an OLL friendly dealer??!?!

Well, it's about 90mi. to the closest FFL who would do the transfer, and I'd have to drive that distance four times, so 360 mi. is more accurate, but still!

Buy one from coldwarshooters and have them send it to Robert Ashmore in Monterey. He will DROS it for you, and he is on there FFL list. He DROSed an NDS3 receiver I bought from CWS last year.

I spoke to him twice, and his take is that, while the gun is not on the banned list, it has too many banned features (?) for him to risk it. I pointed out that it is functionally the same as a Mini-14, but you know how skittish FFLs can be.

When dealing with FFLs its best to keep conversation on a 3rd grade level:

"There is no list of legal long guns.

There is only a list of illegal long guns.

RAA Saiga = not on the illegal list

Not on the illegal list = good to go"

Well, my regular FFL saw the wisdom of this logic, and will allow shipment to him. Yay! Soon to be a Saiga owner!

[dccali79]

whos your FFL?, Ive been using rogers relics for the last year or so and Mr ashmore only once.

[All Nav]

He's a guy in Salinas who I found out about through a co-worker. As I mentioned, he doesn't make anything on the transfer, so he's not keen on doing more business (he originally got his FFL to help his friends and those in his club get guns). For this reason, he's asked that I not advertise him. His fee is about the same as Roger's.