TNW ASR (CA model)

[zenabi90]

Hi everyone! As NATEWA has said, I have bought the TNW ASR. I looked up general FTE/stovepipe/double feed issues as a broader problem involving blowback type weapons, and also AR type weapons. Here were a couple solutions from lots of different platforms:

1. Extractor replacement
2. Ejector replacement
3. Heavier buffer spring (short-cycling) [http://www.gundigest.com/rifle-revie...ecoil-springs]
4. Hotter loads
5. Heavier grain projectiles
6. Reducing lube (maybe a build up/gunking behind the bolt)

I have some WWB, and some Federal, and the provided S&B to test out. I saw some Federal Hydrashock at Walmart but they wanted $30 for 25 rounds. I am also on the lookout for any kind of steel cased, like Brown Bear, Wolf, and TulAmmo.

Basically once I get the ASR out of jail, I'll spend the day breaking it down and diagramming/photographing each part that could be involved. I was thinking about shooting 2-3 mags of each ammo I have to see which one has the most problems. Once I have that figured out, I'll see if I can jury rig a cheap gun stand/mount to isolate the user out of the gun or borrow one, and get some high speed video focused on the ejection port to see exactly the process of the jam.

I will try to keep everyone updated here, with pictures and hopefully YouTube videos. Thanks to NATEWA for giving me this opportunity.

[zenabi90]

Got the TNW ASR out of jail today, and took her straight across the street to The Gun Room here in Elk Grove. Got the iron sights adjusted and went to town. Burned probably 120 rounds today of Winchester White Box.

Initial Thoughts/Results.
1. Ammo snob, 3/10 FTEject
2. Light, non-tiring
3. Precise
4. Well Built

Expanded thoughts

Initial thoughts
1. Pretty light, and love that I can fit it in a backpack once the barrel is removed. I used a Yonex briefcase-style tennis bag as my range bag today and it worked wonderfully. I spent about an hour at the range, and no signs of fatigue whatsoever.

2. Fits me like a glove, all the body geometry works out just right. 120 rounds over an hour and I did not get tired or sore from an awkward body position. My only complaint is I have large-ish hands and the grip did not fill out like I wanted it too. If anyone has used a WE G18C airsoft pistol, you'll get an idea for how I like my AR grip to feel.

3. Precision is good, I was shooting an average of 3-4in groups at 50 feet using the iron sights. It was shooting a tad high, and I didn't have something to adjust the irons, but the groups I shot were very well grouped.

4. Fit and finish is good, the weakest part of the rifle is ironically the butt stock. It wiggles a tad, but unnoticable in shooting. Besides the whole FTE problem of course. It may have been light, and sub$1K, but it did not feel cheap in the least.

A bit about me, I'm pretty much a beginner. I did take a 4 hour long pistol course from Liberty Firearms Training, but I haven't shot much in the way of carbines/long guns. I will take lots of pictures once I disassemble and clean, just as a backup and for my own sake, and will post them here too.

From what I can tell and see, it definitely feels like a short-cycling issue caused by underpowered ammunition. The ASR really showed how inconsistent WWB is in their loadings. The higher recoil rounds had no problems, but the ones that didn't kick much usually were the ones that lead to FTEs.

Now I could just buy other ammo, but I really want to make this ammo snob into more of a... promiscuous girl. What kind of a survival rifle is an ammo snob after all?

Final conclusions:
1. WWB is a good ammo for testing FTE problems. Will be testing Federal 115gr to see if it will be good for FTE testing too.
2. Get a stronger ejection spring. If this doesn't work... Go to 3.
3. Look into a heavier buffer assembly, as the folks at AR15 say this should slow down the bolt carrier group (BCG) and ensure proper cycling. Which makes sense to me.

And add high speed video somewhere in here.

[NATEWA]

Good luck - I hope the Sellier and Bellot has less or no FTE's. I have more if you want and will give you a box of reloads with heavier grain bullets to see if that does the job. If it does, changing the buffer might allow you shoot the cheap 115 brass.

[zenabi90]

So another note, I found the foregrip wasn't really my style, I found myself using it as brace instead while holding the barrel. Also, there wasn't any place to mount my Fenix TK21 flashlight either, which doesn't make for very good "survival."

I figured the Magpul Angled Foregrip would fit my grip needs, but it measured a bit too long for the bottom rail on the ASR. So I also picked up a UTG Tri Rail. The Magpul was plastic with metal rails, and had the fit and finish of most Magpul parts. Lots of people rag on UTG, but it was all metal and very very sturdy feeling. We'll see how it holds up when I next go shooting. Photos attached.

Magpul AFG2: http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG414/46
UTG TriRail: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[NATEWA]

Any updates about FTEs?

[entities]

I'm curious as well, I get an average of 1 FTE per mag using 115gr WWB. I seemed to get half as many using S&B 124gr, but only shot ~2 mags of it last time at the range. I have some Federal JHP 147gr, but don't really want to shoot several mags of that spendy stuff off at the range...

-Chad

[NATEWA]

Chad - Dennis with TNW said they test using Wolf or S&B ammo. Check slickguns - I saw some deals on S&B the other day. I also saw a good deal on 124 grain NATO ammo that may work?

[zenabi90]

Got some news from TNW. They use a proprietary custom buffer for the ASR, meaning that a regular AR carbine buffer cannot be used to replace theirs. To me, that sounds like a bit of "we don't want anyone messing with our guns and then blaming us for failures." I don't blame them, but at the same time, anyone knows they can modify a buffer should know better than to blame TNW for their modification. They suggested doing a full polish on the Feed Ramp setup. Going to break out my dremel to do so.

The .40SW version of the ASR cannot handle the .357 Sig round's energy. They're currently working on the .357 Sig kit for release next year. Also, for some reason management has put the .22LR conv kit on the backburner. It was slated for release this summer, but has been delayed indefinitely. Definitely a bummer for me, as I was really looking forward to the release of the .22LR kit.

There's also a bit of a rumor about a pisol kit direct from the source. I'm not exactly sure what that means, I asked for clarification today but no answer yet.


"That kit is still in the works, but we are coming out with a pistol version by the end of the summer. Why the management has put the 22 kit on the back burner is beyond me, but we are coming out with other innovations"

It has me very curious.



I got two range trips in. Dialed in the irons so they were no longer shooting 4-5in high at 25yds, and gave the Magpul Angled Foregrip v2 a thorough work through.

[zenabi90]

Range trip 1: Jun 21, Targetmasters West (Milpitas)
Got to put 50 rounds through a Glock 31 .357 Sig. For some reason that round just gets the blood flowing, and I've sent an email to TNW to see if their .40 conv kit can run .357 Sig. I know that with Glocks chambered in either caliber, they can fire both .40 and .357Sig without any modification. Waiting for a response from TNW about this, and got my answer. The .357 Sig will need its own barrel and bolt different from the .40SW kit.

So I used 50rds Federal Champion 115gr and 20rds Sellier&Bellot on this particular trip. The Federal was just slightly better than the WWB, getting 1-2 FTEs per 10rd mag compared to the 3-4 WWB was giving me. Essentially I felt that the WWB turned the ASR into a bolt action rather than a semi-auto. I tried to mentally track what position the FTEs came in, to see if there was a pattern, but nothing obvious appeared as they came at all positions.

The 20rds S&B performed the same as the FC, and with 30rds left, I stopped there in case it was the FC residue causing the FTEs. It seemed like a farfetched theory but hey, got to eliminate everything right?

Overall verdict: unchanged

[zenabi90]

Range trip 2: June 24, Reed's Indoor Range (Santa Clara)

This time I used 140rds CCI Blazer Brass 115gr that I bought from the range, 30rds Sellier&Bellot, and 50rds WWB. Did not clean the gun between the Jun 21 range and this trip, but no evidence of fouling anywhere in the gun.

The CCI Blazer I had misgivings about initially, since most range ammo does not make me happy, but when faced with 80 rounds or 80+150rds, shooting is shooting.

I was pleasantly very surprised and happy. I got ~2 FTE's per 50 round box, which is a 96% in my book. Definitely acceptable but unacceptable for a "survival" rifle. But definitely the best performer out of all the ammo so far. CCI Blazer Brass 115gr worked so well, I was thoroughly confused at this point. It didn't seem to kick any harder or softer than the other ammo, maybe the gun was finally broken in? Also shot some really nice groups at 25yds with iron sights now that I had them dialed in.

Put down 30 rounds of the S&B, got 2 FTE's, maybe the gun really was broken in.

Started in on the WWB, this was going to be the real test. And the WWB was performing even worse than before. Talking every other round was an FTEject, some mags were 8-9 FTE strong. So instead, I used the box to perfect moving from target to target, and quickly clearing jams in between while maintaining sight picture and accuracy. It was an interesting exercise to say the least, and I was shooting slightly faster than the 2 seconds between rounds rule, but with a room full of shooters, I think it was hidden pretty well.

Overall verdict: Actually likes CCI Blazer Brass, S&B performance appears dependent on previous rounds, and I just need to stay the hell away from Federal and WWB except for diagnosing purposes.

On a side note, CCI BB didn't have any smell at all, S&B just a tad, and Federal/WWB stank like it had powder with a bit too much sulfur in it. Terrible for indoor.

[zenabi90]

I'm going to ask NATEWA if I can buy his other boxes of S&B and shoot them on their own to gauge their performance separately. I did bring back 5 50rd cases of CCI-BB with me. I also just got 200rds Remington 147gr UMC from the big brown truck.

Magpul AFGv2 (smaller one) plus UTG TriRail put the gun in a very natural position for me. It's actually perfect, because without the extra rail, the AFGv2 ran a little high up for my left arm when supporting rifle from a kneeling position. The extra drop from the TriRail allows for very natural quick sight picture acquisition. Of course, with anything concerning ergonomics or personal biomechanics, YMMV.

I moved the TriRail to mount the NcStar scope, just to see how it feels. The AFGv2 feels odd without the TriRail, though the scope does add a considerable weight to the rifle.



I did a full tear down and disassembly. Barrel, removed top and forward rails, removed pistol grip, seperated upper and lower receivers, and a full charging bolt break down. Did a full soak and scrub using isopropyl and let it dry. Then did a full hot soak and scrub with FrogLube solvent. Coated everything with Froglube paste and heated them with a Ranger Heat-It Tool til hot to the touch, and let them cure. Removed all the excess Froglube using gun patches and microfiber cloths and a boresnake on the barrel. Reassembled rifle fully. After two days, I repeated the breakdown and Froglube curing process.

I noticed the bolt was sticking just slightly to the guide rails on the lower receiver and the trigger, so I dabbed on a bit of FrogLube liquid on the guide rails and trigger catch just until the bolt slid like butter.




Quick summary:
1. Buffer change supposedly not an option according to TNW. 357Sig and 22LR kits are still

2. WWB and Federal Champion 115gr are very FTEject prone. To the point where I've stopped going to WalMart because that seems to be all they carry these days.

3. CCI Blazer Brass 115gr is 96% there, but not perfect. Looking to also buy some 125gr 9mm reloads from eddiek. Anyone in the Sac area want to go halfsies on a 500rd order? Supposedly they shoot a little hot but very accurate.

4. Ejector assembly is strong, I don't think its a weak extractor. I'll need to buy another box or two of WWB to test it out, but I'm really hoping the FrogLube did the trick.

5. Magpul AFGv2 + UTG Tri-Rail are magnificent, iron sights are great, red dot purchase set aside for now.

6. Make a thumb mounted bullet button tool, for easy mag swap. My cable lock works great, but it's awkward. Same with my screwdriver. Already have a few prototypes floating in my head using thumbtack heads and Velcro. And cut foam for my carry case. And get a 1 pt sling. And another UTG TriRail.

Sorry for the multi-post, but it really seemed WAY too long for one post, so this seemed like a logical way to break it up.

[NATEWA]

That is a bummer about .22lr conversion kit being put on hold!!! When I owned the rifle, I was very excited about that option.

Ammo and fte experience is what I went through. The Wolf and S&B was good and other brands were not! I would go with a full polish of the bolt as they recommend and the hot reloads. If the polish and hot loads dont work, i would suggest asking TNW for a new bolt. If that doesnt improve the situation, send the gun back to them and ask them to figure it out.Your video camera idea may be useful as well. Once you get this carbine shooting reliably, you're going to love it.

I have four boxes of S&B and one box of Herters (I believe it is S&B made for Cabelas) I can sell you. I'll send you a pm.

[entities]

Oh wow, that's terrible on the WWB, I get maybe 1 FTE per 10 using WWB in my ASR. Still more than I like, I'd prefer it to shoot like my glock...

I'll need to get to the range and shoot more 124gr S&B, also maybe a mag of Federal hydra-shok 147gr +P

-Chad

[zenabi90]

Yes its bad, I'm sure its exacerbated by the overall brass ejection problem. But I've heard reports across the board that WWB has been a problem for most everyone who shoots anything not called Glock.

[entities]

Had some good luck with mine today. Did a thorough cleaning and went out the range. In the first 10 shots still had a couple issues, but found I need to really slam the magazine in, much harder than on my glock. After doing this I shot ~60 rounds of WWB pretty rapidly with 31 round magazines and didn't have a single failure!

-Chad